P-09 Issues Running Reloads

[VRSW]

I own two P-09 suppressor-ready guns.  I'm having issues with one of them when running my own reloads.  In probably 1 in 3 rounds, the slide will not travel all the way forward and the barrel will not go into battery.  I found one round that would not chamber completely, so I removed the slide from the gun, removed the recoil spring, slid the barrel forward, slid the rim of the round in question under the extractor hook and then tried to slide the barrel back and into battery.  Won't go.

So I took out my other identical P-09 and did the same thing and the round chambers and barrel goes into battery with no issues. 

I can remove the barrels from both guns and the round drops right in and falls right out.....so this is not an issue with anything about the round being bulged or defective and not able to completely drop freely into the chamber.

Has anyone ran into this same issue?....and if so, is there a solution?  I'm thinking that this is most likely a chamber length issue? 

[VRSW]

BTW....I'm running these same reloads (thousands of them) thru other guns (Springfield Hellcat and 3 different Canik TP9SFX guns with no issues).  The one P-09 is the only gun having issues.

[Grendel]

Ammo OAL issue. The fact that the same rounds work in other firearms is irrelevant.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0

[VRSW]

It is not an OAL issue.  This is happening with multiple different bullets/loads....2 different JHP loads, flat point loads, FMJ loads.  ALL of these different loads run fine in my other 9mm guns and ONLY have issues in this one P-09 gun.  OAL issue would only be an issue if the bullet is getting into the rifling before the case mouth comes up against the end of the chamber.  If this was the case, I would assume that the round I tried that won't chamber....if I dropped it into the barrel and pushed on it....the bullet would jam into the rifling and the round would not fall back out.  That is not the case.  I can push the round down into the chamber and flip the barrel over and the round falls right out. 

Seems unlikely that I'm the only person having this issue....only with one gun?...and not in my other identical P-09?

[Grendel]

Okay then. Good luck.

[M1A4ME]

Are the recoil springs the same strength?  Same pounds rating?

Two P09 9MM pistols?

Swap the whole top end out (barrel/slide assembly and recoil spring assembly and slide stop lever) and see if the problems persist on the other frame.  Probably will but that at least rules out anything with the frames/frame parts.

Some people replace the factory springs with weaker (usually) recoil springs.  Put the recoil spring assembly from the pistol that works into the one that doesn't.  They both may be P09 9MM pistols but that does not make them identical in all ways.  One may be more/less accurate than another or more/less reliable till you get the bugs worked out.

The bullets dropping in and fully chambering and falling back out make it seem like it's not a bullet shape or seating depth issue.

One thing I've heard rifle shooters talk about is a build up of carbon right past where the case mouth is.  It can affect rifle function/accuracy.  Not sure if something like that would be an issue in your barrel if the cartridge falls out easily.  You might do some rigorous chamber/barrel cleaning to make sure there's no issue with that.

The base/bottom of the case gets hit by the slide/breechface and pushed forward into the chamber.  The case/base slides upwards on the breechface as it moves forward.  How smooth is the breechface (the flat area where the firing pin comes through)?  Needs to be smooth.

Sometimes it's not one thing that causes the problem.  It's two or three things working together to cause the problem.

[Wobbly]

Three questions.....

- Did you buy one of your P09's used, or did you buy them both new ?

- Tell us more about this ammo that you reloaded. What is the weight, brand and nose style of the bullets you loaded ?

- And exactly what OAL are you using on this bullet.

[VRSW]

Both P-09s were purchased brand new.  Both are the suppressor ready models with the suppressor height night sights and 21 rd mags.  It's definitely not a spring problem as I did this attempt to "chamber the round" with only the barrel and the slide.....slip the rim of the case under the extractor hook and then slide the barrel back over the round.  On one P-09 slide/barrel, the round slides right into the barrel and the barrel can be pushed up easily into battery.  On the other slide/barrel, the round goes right into the barrel easily, but you can't push the barrel up into battery with the slide.

This particular round is a Everglades 124gr JHP with COL of 1.10".  But...as I said above, I have this same issue with loads:

Berry's 124gr Round Nose COL 1.15"
Berry's 124gr Thick Plate Flat Point COL (?...I'll have to look that one up...don't have it in my phone app)
Berry's 124gr Hybrid HP COL 1.095"

And every single one of those loads I have fired in multiple Caniks and my Hellcat.  I haven't tried firing them in the "good" P-09, but did load some up in a mag and cycle them thru....and they all go into battery...even if I ride the slide all the way forward.  Load thos same rounds up and try to cycle them thru the "bad" P-09 and I'm back to having about 1 out of every 3 rounds that will not go into battery....even if I drop the slide instead of riding it.

[VRSW]

And yes, both guns are running all of the stock springs.

[Wobbly]

I own two P-09 suppressor-ready guns.  I'm having issues with one of them when running my own reloads.  In probably 1 in 3 rounds, the slide will not travel all the way forward and the barrel will not go into battery.

Has anyone ran into this same issue?....and if so, is there a solution?  I'm thinking that this is most likely a chamber length issue?

Could we please get a straight story here ? In the preceding post, you are concerned about factory ammo. But in the original post (quoted) you were concerned about YOUR reloads. So which is it ??

More questions...
Have either gun ever been to a gunsmith or sent back to CZ-USA ?

Where do you get your brass ? Is it 'range pickup' ? Could there possibly be someone on this range shooting 9 Major ?

Do you use a Cartridge Gauge to check your rounds ?

[M1A4ME]

As Wobbly asked for - pictures of some of the rounds that don't chamber would be great, as well as pictures of some rounds that do chamber fine.

There's something about your die set up or your brass/bullets causing the problem in a barrel with a chamber just a bit tighter than the other P09. 

Does factory ammo chamber just fine in the problem pistol?  If so it points back to something a bit different (between factory and your reloads) with the ammo and probably that barrel, too.

I've had AR15's (three now) that would not reliably chamber my .223 reloads.  I've changed dies, I've bought case checking gauges, I've bought headspace gauges.  What I've found is slight differences between the combination of barrel and bolt (headspace).  On the AR it can pass the Go gauge but still be so darn "tight" that reloads that work reliably in 14 or 15 other AR15's won't work in that AR15.  It's in spec, but isn't reliable with my reloads.  A bolt change fixed all three of them.  Won't go into the deails, but I'm saying a gun can meet factory specs and still cause you problems that you may not be able to fix without some work. 

You might have to have that barrel reamed slightly to fix your problem.  You might not, if there is something you can do with the reloading process (equipment, tools, tool set up.)

Good luck with it.

[VRSW]

Could we please get a straight story here ? In the preceding post, you are concerned about factory ammo. But in the original post (quoted) you were concerned about YOUR reloads. So which is it ??

More questions...
Have either gun ever been to a gunsmith or sent back to CZ-USA ?

Where do you get your brass ? Is it 'range pickup' ? Could there possibly be someone on this range shooting 9 Major ?

Do you use a Cartridge Gauge to check your rounds ?

I've never mentioned anything about factory ammo in any of my posts here.  This is only an issue I'm having with one gun with my own reloads.....several different loads with several different bullet types.

I did have the slide on this gun machined for an optic by Cajun.  It had this problem before the machining was done and still has this problem afterwards.  I would have had Cajun look into this while they had it, but when I sent the gun in, I had only tried one type of my reloads (I think the Berry's flat point load) and assumed that there was just something about that particular load that the gun didn't like.  It wasn't until I got the gun back, mounted the optic and tried sighting in that I realized that it won't run any of my reloads without issues.

Everything else about both P-09's is bone stock.

Brass is whatever I could find.  Some of it was purchased in major retail stores as bulk "once fired" brass.  Some was given to me by friends.  Some was range brass from a police shooting range.  I do look every single case over before loading it into the press and check for defects, case bulge, cracks, etc.  Anything that looks questionable gets tossed out.

No, I do not use a gauge.  I bought a threaded barrel for one of my Canik SFx guns, so I installed that and have the original SFx barrel on my reloading bench and use it just to make sure that the first few rounds out of the press (once I have the OAL nailed down) will pass the "plunk test" and drop all the way into the chamber and fall back out freely.  Once I have a batch loaded, I will sometimes just pick random rounds out and re-check the plunk test, but don't check every round.

[VRSW]

As Wobbly asked for - pictures of some of the rounds that don't chamber would be great, as well as pictures of some rounds that do chamber fine.

There's something about your die set up or your brass/bullets causing the problem in a barrel with a chamber just a bit tighter than the other P09. 

Does factory ammo chamber just fine in the problem pistol?  If so it points back to something a bit different (between factory and your reloads) with the ammo and probably that barrel, too.

I've had AR15's (three now) that would not reliably chamber my .223 reloads.  I've changed dies, I've bought case checking gauges, I've bought headspace gauges.  What I've found is slight differences between the combination of barrel and bolt (headspace).  On the AR it can pass the Go gauge but still be so darn "tight" that reloads that work reliably in 14 or 15 other AR15's won't work in that AR15.  It's in spec, but isn't reliable with my reloads.  A bolt change fixed all three of them.  Won't go into the deails, but I'm saying a gun can meet factory specs and still cause you problems that you may not be able to fix without some work. 

You might have to have that barrel reamed slightly to fix your problem.  You might not, if there is something you can do with the reloading process (equipment, tools, tool set up.)

Good luck with it.

I'll try to get more of that info this week when I have time.  I'm thinking that I'll see if I can get an accurate measurement of the chamber length between the 2 guns with my dial caliper and see if it looks like there is a measurable difference.  This gun does not have many rounds thru it.  I probably only put a couple hundred rounds thru it when I bought it to make sure it ran well (that would have been with factory ammo) and apparently it did, because it was my "truck gun" for several years after that.....just rode around in my truck console and never got shot again.  During Covid, I dug out all of my reloading stuff that had been in storage for 20 years and started back in reloading.  So now, almost everything I shoot are my own reloads in all of my guns.  This is the only gun that won't run them.
 

[Grendel]

All that 'plunk' testing in the Canik barrel is doing is confirming that the round will fit that barrel, not the barrel of the P-09 - which is the one you should be using.

[VRSW]

All that 'plunk' testing in the Canik barrel is doing is confirming that the round will fit that barrel, not the barrel of the P-09 - which is the one you should be using.

As I stated above, the round that won't allow the gun to go into battery DOES PASS THE PLUNK TEST in the P-09 barrel.  From the very first post:

I can remove the barrels from both guns and the round drops right in and falls right out.....so this is not an issue with anything about the round being bulged or defective and not able to completely drop freely into the chamber.