Vz.58 Admirer from NC/WV Finally Taking the Leap

[RSR]

OP -- see Colorado's proposed (and fairly likely to be enacted) semi-auto gun ban as case-in-point on where ban states are headed:

DENVER — In one of their first moves of the 2023 legislative session, majority Democrats — who control nearly two-thirds of both chambers — are gearing up to enact a ban on what appears to be the entire class of semi-automatic weapons.

In fact, it may be easier to know what guns would still be legal in Colorado by simply reading one paragraph of the 16-page draft bill, which says a so-called “assault weapon” does not include any firearm that “has been made permanently inoperable; an antique firearm manufactured before 1899; a replica of an antique firearm; a firearm that is manually operated by bolt; pump; lever; slide action, unless the firearm is a shotgun with a revolving cylinder; or a firearm that can only fire rimfire ammunition.”

The bill, embedded at the end of this article, will prohibit anyone in Colorado from “possessing, manufacturing, importing, purchasing, selling, offering to sell, or transferring ownership of” a so-called assault weapon. A violation of the new law would be considered a class 2 misdemeanor, but if that weapon is then used in the commission of a felony or a crime of violence the seller could then be charged with a class 6 felony.

Source: https://pagetwo.completecolorado.com/2023/01/09/colorado-democrats-aim-to-ban-entire-class-of-semiautomatic-weapons/

[briang2ad]

All leftists CAN do is steal, kill, and destroy - like father, like sons. 

[AR-Tenner]

Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone!  I am moving ahead on picking up my Vz.58, and am very excited.  The ammo/parts availability concern is not a big one for me, as I stock parts deep, and have the budget to put A LOT of ammunition away.  I have done this with the NATO rifle calibers already and have many redundant sets of spare parts for my ARs, and will have no trouble doing so for 7.62x39 and Vz.58 spares. 

I never shoot steel-cased ammo anyway, so I would be using the non-Russian ammo anyway.  I also figure that once the Russian ammo can't come in anymore, the huge number of 7.62x39-chambered firearms in this country will induce domestic manufacturers to start producing economically for that caliber, and cause the Czechs, Serbians, Bulgarians, etc. to step up their production as well.  I am already looking forward to handloading for the cartridge, as I have a lot of once-fired brass I have collected over the years, CCI200 primers, H4198 powder, and just ordered some Hornady FMJs and SSTs.

[briang2ad]

PSA is supposedly tooling up for X39 production as they have a vested interest in the cartridge. 

[RSR]

PSA is supposedly tooling up for X39 production as they have a vested interest in the cartridge.

First I've heard.  Steel case?  Brass?  Etc?

I'm still waiting for them to spin up Nodak's 10/22 parts...  Over a year and crickets.  I need some of their front sights to pair w/ Norgon's receivers and rear sights for a couple 10/22 M1 carbine builds I have in the works.
I'm assuming thee new PSA retro H&R ARs are from the Nodak deal, so I'm guessing that's at least a start, but not what I need...

[MeatAxe]

Right, but typically a "survival rifle" is first and foremost contingent upon broad ammo availability.  If existing stocks of 7.62x39 are shot up faster than they're replaced, then 7.62x39 rifles are increasingly inappropriate for frontline "survival" use...   That's why I suggested calibers that are more widespread, domestically produced, and easily reloaded, if needed.  For instance, at 50 cents per round, you can fire or stockpile at least 6 22lr rounds for the same cost as one round of what 7.62x39 will likely be...

Aside from .22LR, 7.62x39 is probably the most common round on the planet. There’s still quite a bit of Russian ammo in the import pipeline. But even so, companies like Century, PSA, Kalashnikov USA, etc. are importing 7.62x39 from other countries, plus we have pretty robust domestic production in the US.

Of course, if you’d been “buying cheap and stacking deep” over the last few years decades when Russian ammo was cheap and plentiful, you’d already have been set.😜

[Grizzlie]

Going back to the original post; it was a pleasure reading and welcome to the vz58 family. I've got the Sporter version, shoots great and recoil is very manageable. Great gun.

[RSR]

Aside from .22LR, 7.62x39 is probably the most common round on the planet. There’s still quite a bit of Russian ammo in the import pipeline. But even so, companies like Century, PSA, Kalashnikov USA, etc. are importing 7.62x39 from other countries, plus we have pretty robust domestic production in the US.

Of course, if you’d been “buying cheap and stacking deep” over the last few years decades when Russian ammo was cheap and plentiful, you’d already have been set.😜

If you train, a couple thousand rounds per year per weapon isn't unheard of...  So you still need resupply, especially if you want to maintain inventory levels.

[MeatAxe]

Aside from .22LR, 7.62x39 is probably the most common round on the planet. There’s still quite a bit of Russian ammo in the import pipeline. But even so, companies like Century, PSA, Kalashnikov USA, etc. are importing 7.62x39 from other countries, plus we have pretty robust domestic production in the US.

Of course, if you’d been “buying cheap and stacking deep” over the last few years decades when Russian ammo was cheap and plentiful, you’d already have been set.😜

If you train, a couple thousand rounds per year per weapon isn't unheard of...  So you still need resupply, especially if you want to maintain inventory levels.

You can still find plenty of Russian x39 fmj for @ 35 cents / rd., which, while not as cheap as the @ $0.22 / rd. Pre Biden, is still a lot cheaper than during the coof.

Prices are trending downward in spite of the Russia ban as more ammo export players enter the x39 market.

[briang2ad]

PSA is supposedly tooling up for X39 production as they have a vested interest in the cartridge.

First I've heard.  Steel case?  Brass?  Etc?

I'm still waiting for them to spin up Nodak's 10/22 parts...  Over a year and crickets.  I need some of their front sights to pair w/ Norgon's receivers and rear sights for a couple 10/22 M1 carbine builds I have in the works.
I'm assuming thee new PSA retro H&R ARs are from the Nodak deal, so I'm guessing that's at least a start, but not what I need...

https://gundigest.com/article/psa-tooling-up-for-domestic-steel-cased-ammo-production

Old report, but I would not put it past PSA, and they are into the X39 rifles heavily and they are not stupid folks.  Years ago they got some bad rap on their AKs, and I think they've been able to beat down the naysayers. 

[briang2ad]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?239321-PSA-STG-44-at-Shotshow/page3

Evidently this all was announced at Shotshow. 

[RSR]

Are there some extremely top secret deals to send extra Heaps of 5.56 etc ammo now to Taiwan?

[...]

the Taiwanese might feel like the lonely Ukrainians, but the Ukrainians aren't surrounded by water.

Wolf Gold 5.56 ammo comes from Taiwan -- they're sending it here, not there...

The ocean is a better defensible barrier than Ukraine's rivers...  And which also means small arms are to play a minimal role in determining the outcome of any conflict there.  But mods here probably want us to take any further conversation of such to the General Discussion forum, not this thread.

[briang2ad]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?239321-PSA-STG-44-at-Shotshow/page3

Evidently this all was announced at Shotshow.

My point is that 7.62X39 is still a tad cheaper than 5.56 despite the amount of 5.56 in the supply chain, and while x39 may indeed dwindle from Russia, there is a heavy market for it, and people like PSA are smart to pursue.   MAYBE 300 BO will become the 'new deal' round, but that would take some time and a shift in the market.  We'll see.

[RSR]

My point is that 7.62X39 is still a tad cheaper than 5.56 despite the amount of 5.56 in the supply chain, and while x39 may indeed dwindle from Russia, there is a heavy market for it, and people like PSA are smart to pursue.   MAYBE 300 BO will become the 'new deal' round, but that would take some time and a shift in the market.  We'll see.

Not if you compare apples to apples.

Brass-cased ball 5.56 is around 35 cents per round right now versus brass-cased 7.62x39 at over 45 cents per round.  Steel-cased 7.62x39 is roughly the same price right now as brass-cased 5.56, but at current prices that 5.56 is up roughly a mere 17% (less than 20%, from 30 cents to 35) relative to pre-COVID ammo prices VS that steel-cased 7.62x39 up roughly 75% (from 20 cents to 35).  I don't recall offhand what price brass cased 7.62x39 was going for pre-2020, but if memory serves it's always been more expensive than 5.56  due to more materials needed -- powder, brass, bullet, etc. all being greater and combined a 7.62x39 cartridge weighs ~35-40% more than a 5.56 cartridge) as well as less brass-cased 7.62x39 scale/volume production...

Point being, put those ammo prices in a spreadsheet and create a trendline or forecast (and also have the understanding that domestic brass-cased 7.62x39 ammo has always cost about double the price of the foreign-made steel cased options), and 7.62x39 guns historic role in the US firearms community as a budget blasters a step up from 22lr options immediately and undeniably becomes unsustainable...  And that's one of the reasons why I'm increasingly leaning towards and recommending 9mm "rifles" for either training or self defense weapon systems themselves -- training/competence on a given system should be the top priority.
The affordable steel core 5.45x39 Russian 7N6 ammo that used to be had for 15 cents a round prior to it being banned as "armor piercing" and all the guns that were purchased to take advantage of this cheap ammo is a good parallel to what could happen to 7.62x39 guns... 
And we can also look to .30-06 and .30 carbine guns that have seen the price of ammo also increase substantially over the past 20 years as surplus stocks have pretty much dried up for the consumer market -- I will acknowledge that some affordable .30 carbine ammo does occasionally appear, but .30-06 remains expensive -- and both of these guns and others that utilize these calibers are shot far less than they were 30 years ago.

[briang2ad]

I think one thing is that all ammo has gotten ridiculous. 

My point is maybe in line with yours:  300 BO may never become “the 7.62 x39 replacement”.

Yes, the 5.56 may be the better long term solution for the average person wanting a battle carbine.

And yes, a 9mm carbine is much better in most home defense scenarios today.