Author Topic: Midwest Industries AK QD ACOG and MRO Mounts: Work on Side-Rail-Equipped Vz.58?  (Read 7766 times)

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Online MeatAxe

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 01:38:04 AM by MeatAxe »

Offline briang2ad

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This is GOOD.  20-2 months ago I would have jumped on it and been fine. 

I have decided to wait on the Master Mount.  Why?  I get two mounts in one - low profile ACOG/Micro Prism and 1913.  I am finding that the 1913 situation might be best as the sights get in the way of the Micro mounted low on an AK.  But nice to have both with no change and no added piece-parts. 

If there is one thing about the AK or VZ 58 for that matter is that until you GET the setup and try it out, it may not work for you. Much harder than the AR.

Online MeatAxe

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This is GOOD.  20-2 months ago I would have jumped on it and been fine. 

I have decided to wait on the Master Mount.  Why?  I get two mounts in one - low profile ACOG/Micro Prism and 1913.  I am finding that the 1913 situation might be best as the sights get in the way of the Micro mounted low on an AK.  But nice to have both with no change and no added piece-parts. 

If there is one thing about the AK or VZ 58 for that matter is that until you GET the setup and try it out, it may not work for you. Much harder than the AR.

You might want to grab the RS Regulate lower mount while you can. They’re low profile, robust and very light,  much lighter than the MI mount and the universal upper mounts are relatively easy to find. There’s a reason why RS Regulate mounts are so popular — they’re well proven.

Unless the AK Master Mount is being radically changed, it’s basically just a side rail that’s attached with screws through trigger and hammer pin holes. You would need a side mount regardless. And even if the Master Mount is changed, there’s no telling if it will be up to snuff the first go round. Even the Master Mount rail has gone through a couple of iterations to get the bugs out.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 03:13:41 PM by MeatAxe »

Offline briang2ad

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https://akmastermount.com/product/ak-master-mount-optic-mount/

The VZ 58 model will be available soon. 

I was not referring to the AK screw in side rail.

But I ordered the RSR with mini pic rail.  The ability to align properly may be helpful.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 08:59:59 PM by briang2ad »

Online MeatAxe

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https://akmastermount.com/product/ak-master-mount-optic-mount/

The VZ 58 model will be available soon. 

I was not referring to the AK screw in side rail.

But I ordered the RSR with mini pic rail.  The ability to align properly may be helpful.


Well, let us know how the Vz58 Master Mount works when you get it! It’s always good to have more options.

I have at least half a dozen RS Regulate mounts in various configurations on various guns, including a Vz58, and all are very light but rock solid, with no issues. Upper and lower alignment is not difficult, just degrease all the screws and screw holes before assembly and use blue loctite to secure them. I use Loctite 2422 which is shock resistant as well as heat resistant.

Offline briang2ad

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Sorry I reversed course and bought the RSR!  Lol!

Offline briang2ad

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Another comment.  It is indeed a shame that there seems to be little to no support of the VZ 58 in terms of optics coming from the Czech Republic from Czechpoint and other distributors.  It obviously is the most economical option, and it’s probably viable, but there seems to be a bad run of them that happened most recently, and I can attest personally that the locking lever was a soft as butter.   Keep this in mind when you order it because if you order from a place where it’s hard to return obviously that’s a problem because I did return mine and checkpoint honored the refund.  If I wanted such, I would wait on Czechpoint to provide. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 01:04:01 PM by briang2ad »

Offline wyoplinker

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Sorry I reversed course and bought the RSR!  Lol!

A bird in the hand....  I picked up 2 of them while available.

Online MeatAxe

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Another comment.  It is indeed a shame that there seems to be little to no support of the VZ 58 in terms of optics coming from the Czech Republic from Czechpoint and other distributors.  It obviously is the most economical option, and it’s probably viable, but there seems to be a bad run of them that happened most recently, and I can attest personally that the locking lever was a soft as butter.   Keep this in mind when you order it because if you order from a place where it’s hard to return obviously that’s a problem because I did return mine and checkpoint honored the refund.  If I wanted such, I would wait on Czechpoint to provide.

I never have heard anything good about the two (Czech-made?) scope mounts sold by Czechpoint.

Offline briang2ad

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Another comment.  It is indeed a shame that there seems to be little to no support of the VZ 58 in terms of optics coming from the Czech Republic from Czechpoint and other distributors.  It obviously is the most economical option, and it’s probably viable, but there seems to be a bad run of them that happened most recently, and I can attest personally that the locking lever was a soft as butter.   Keep this in mind when you order it because if you order from a place where it’s hard to return obviously that’s a problem because I did return mine and checkpoint honored the refund.  If I wanted such, I would wait on Czechpoint to provide.

I never have heard anything good about the two (Czech-made?) scope mounts sold by Czechpoint.

Glad to see Master Mount enter the market!

Offline RSR

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Another comment.  It is indeed a shame that there seems to be little to no support of the VZ 58 in terms of optics coming from the Czech Republic from Czechpoint and other distributors.  It obviously is the most economical option, and it’s probably viable, but there seems to be a bad run of them that happened most recently, and I can attest personally that the locking lever was a soft as butter.   Keep this in mind when you order it because if you order from a place where it’s hard to return obviously that’s a problem because I did return mine and checkpoint honored the refund.  If I wanted such, I would wait on Czechpoint to provide.

The Czech/Euro solution appears to be the railed top covers combo-ed with the taller front handguard when needed.   Have seen some side rails w/ deflectors for variable scope magnified optics, but that seems to be the exception not the rule -- since they use these primarily as carbines, not rifles, which coincidentally was the intent of the design...

Remember the side rail/being drilled for such only became standard on new production CSA rifles around or after 2016 IIRC.

And yes, the night vision setup of the military models had a side rail, but those are rare as hens teeth and a different side rail setup than current consumer production.

Offline briang2ad

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I have decided to go with the RS Reg rail with mini 1913.  I am also running a 1913 rear end with an MCX Minimalist stock.  I have a PA Micro Prism on an ADM detachable mount, so the Pic rail is handy IF I need to pull the optic and somehow run it on the front end.  Not optimal, but OK in a pinch.  It can also then handle a micro and the front end makes more sense. 

Is it exactly the right height?  Almost - I suppose it might be best on the ACOG mount, tut there is no flexibility, and it is better for a more heads up hold and prone is a tad better also.  You cannot run the Prism too far to the rear. 

The RS Reg mount is so well made and seems easy to adjust WITHOUT a tool - so that is one feature I like better than the MM.  I still wish MI would make a VZ 58 mount as they MOUNT FROM the side - so you can do whatever you want with a folder. 

Offline RSR

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Is it exactly the right height?  Almost - I suppose it might be best on the ACOG mount, tut there is no flexibility, and it is better for a more heads up hold and prone is a tad better also.  You cannot run the Prism too far to the rear. 

The railed topcover and handguards were designed for inline -- typically in GWOT, most I've seen by soldiers had night vision or magnifier on rear top cover and then a forward mounted larger Aimpoint red dot, CompM4/CompM5/Pro/similar.  You lose integral back-up/standard irons with this setup however, but can mount a more traditional M4-style stock with a straighter stock angle and potentially some sort of add'l backup sight.

For most modern optic height and stock setup -- direct inline if not cantilever inline, side mount rails are best, and perhaps allow for a faster return to irons if needed; however, and again, you can't do an inline forward and rear setup...  But could do helmet-mount NOD and IR laser (not always ideal however if your opponents also have NODs and peer/near-peer as lasers point both ways...).
(And could probably combo low mag prism on removable side rail and low forward mount cowitness red dot, but cheek weld for one or the other would be suboptimal...)

Ultimately, the Vz58 does allow you to ultimately configure it how you want it, but you really need to pick a route/setup and stick to it -- you can't have your cake it and eat it too, or cheaply switch configurations, like with other competing platforms (e.g., M4/AR15, etc. newer systems).

And I know you're speaking just to your set-up, but just noting for anyone else chewing on this.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2023, 05:33:08 PM by RSR »

Offline briang2ad

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True on mounting optics higher for a more 'heads up' use of an optic - which is a valuable thing in many circumstances.   The AR for whatever reason ended up with a higher set of sights even though it was invented when soldiers only used irons outside of sniper or DM roles.  So... the options are more and also more standardized, making the AR a much more flexible platform. 

The AK mounting options are actually a bit better than the VZ 58 because the sights are slightly higher in relation to the stock, so that you can get a straight stock AND use irons or go higher based on need.  The other factor is that the AK has much more AM support than the 58.

The VZ 58 is least flexible, except that the rear end is much more adaptable.  The low sights present a problem  for stocks in that if I use a higher stock and high optic, I'm OK until I need to shed the optic for whatever reason.  Also, if i want a straight stock, which is better for recoil,  I can end up with a harder time using irons.  Some ditch irons altogether and move on.  I won't.  I don't mind using an optic on the side rail as primary, because I can dismount it and use the irons pretty quickly.  For now the SIG Minimalist seems to work OK.  Not perfect.  The MI Alpha stock might be optimum, but it is too heavy for my use.  Someone needs to come up with  LIGHT folding option that adjusts cheek height easily.  But then you are back to AM support. 

Possibly the biggest problem for the VZ 58 is the inability to mount a long rail over the top cover like an AK.  This really limits our choices. 

Online MeatAxe

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True on mounting optics higher for a more 'heads up' use of an optic - which is a valuable thing in many circumstances.   The AR for whatever reason ended up with a higher set of sights even though it was invented when soldiers only used irons outside of sniper or DM roles.  So... the options are more and also more standardized, making the AR a much more flexible platform. 

The AK mounting options are actually a bit better than the VZ 58 because the sights are slightly higher in relation to the stock, so that you can get a straight stock AND use irons or go higher based on need.  The other factor is that the AK has much more AM support than the 58.

The VZ 58 is least flexible, except that the rear end is much more adaptable.  The low sights present a problem  for stocks in that if I use a higher stock and high optic, I'm OK until I need to shed the optic for whatever reason.  Also, if i want a straight stock, which is better for recoil,  I can end up with a harder time using irons.  Some ditch irons altogether and move on.  I won't.  I don't mind using an optic on the side rail as primary, because I can dismount it and use the irons pretty quickly.  For now the SIG Minimalist seems to work OK.  Not perfect.  The MI Alpha stock might be optimum, but it is too heavy for my use.  Someone needs to come up with  LIGHT folding option that adjusts cheek height easily.  But then you are back to AM support. 

Possibly the biggest problem for the VZ 58 is the inability to mount a long rail over the top cover like an AK.  This really limits our choices.

I don’t think you can get the “perfect” rifle for all circumstances and criteria. As far as a 7.62x39 combat rifle, the CZ Bren 2 comes close — except that you can’t get parts or service from CZ!! Also, they had some issues with cycling, that could have been solved easily if CZ was doing its job, which they have not. So the Bren 2 is decidedly imperfect as a SD rifle.

Anyway, I used to fret about the Vz58’s iron sights giving me a crick in my neck when I tried to co-witness with a 1x RDS and a straight AR15 butt stock. There are no taller iron sights readily available for the Vz58. No way to easily fix that problem without just going to the usual low slung Vz58 butt stock, which accentuates muzzle flip — an even worse problem than the occasional crick in the neck looking through the irons, at least IMO.

In the end, I said screw the iron sights and put on a PA 3x prism scope with an ACSS reticle and have never been happier. The optic is short enough that it doesn’t get hit by ejected shells and it mounts easily with a RS Reg unit. The ACSS reticle is phenomenal for hitting from close in to distance. Even if the battery were to die, it still has the big etched reticle which is easily visible. If I want a 1x option, I can easily add an RDS to the rail atop the 3x. If for some reason I want to go back to the irons, the RS Regulate mount is quickly removable.

https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-slx-3x32mm-gen-iii-prism-scope-with-acss-cqb-300blk-762x39mm-reticle

PA also makes a more compact newer generation 3x ACSS prism, but it doesn’t have the top rail.

Sometimes the “compromise” is better than the original solution. I think in this day and age of reliable and durable 1x + electronic optics, BUISs are not all that critical, especially with easily removable optic mounts.

BTW, I have seen some scope mounts for the Vz58 from the Czech Republic for “full size scopes,” complete with a plastic shield to protect against dings from ejected cases, but they look pretty heavy and awkward.

You can’t have everything…
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 05:05:45 PM by MeatAxe »