Optics. What do you prefer?

[v35]

I know next to nothing about optics, so I went to a Cabela's in an effort to educate myself. The only thing I learned is not to go to a Cabela's They didn't even have any ammunition I needed or wanted. Forget reloading supplies. It's been a long time since I set foot in Cabela's. Things have really gone downhill there.

Back on topic, I looked at a couple under consideration but the salesman couldn't make one work, and the other one was so weird it couldn't be right. It looked like a large everything pizza with a hole in the middle. The image was all fuzzy. That can't be right.

Anyway I'm trying to look on the Holosun website but it's been loading so slowly the past few days it's practically useless.

What can anyone tell me that will narrow my search? The gun in question isn't a CZ though   It's an M&P Shield Plus OR if it matters. I really like the Shield. I also have a HK VP9 ready for an optic too.

I don't want some cheap optic but Holosun seems like it has everything going for it. Vortex is another model under consideration. Trijicon seems not only overpriced, but inferior in some respects.

Opinions welcome.

[NeedCZ]

I have two Vortex optics and am very happy with them.  One was on a used gun I got at auction, it malfunctioned.  I contacted Vortex, they immediately sent me a shipping label and within days had a new one in my hands.  Best customer support that I've seen in a long time

[crc4]

I know next to nothing about optics, so I went to a Cabela's in an effort to educate myself. The only thing I learned is not to go to a Cabela's They didn't even have any ammunition I needed or wanted. Forget reloading supplies. It's been a long time since I set foot in Cabela's. Things have really gone downhill there.

Back on topic, I looked at a couple under consideration but the salesman couldn't make one work, and the other one was so weird it couldn't be right. It looked like a large everything pizza with a hole in the middle. The image was all fuzzy. That can't be right.

Anyway I'm trying to look on the Holosun website but it's been loading so slowly the past few days it's practically useless.

What can anyone tell me that will narrow my search? The gun in question isn't a CZ though   It's an M&P Shield Plus OR if it matters. I really like the Shield. I also have a HK VP9 ready for an optic too.

I don't want some cheap optic but Holosun seems like it has everything going for it. Vortex is another model under consideration. Trijicon seems not only overpriced, but inferior in some respects.

Opinions welcome.

That you found no one knowledgeable at Cabela's isn't surprising. Most stores have clerks, not salespeople who know the merchandise. Unless you are lucky and find a real gun person behind the counter, this is the norm. I'm not slamming Cabela's as it's true across the board in every modern retail store.

My advice is to read online reviews, watch Youtube videos, then go to the websites, and read their spiel. There's a lot of bad information out there (you can almost tell by looking at the speaker) but there's also great information out there. You just need to learn to check it out yourself.

After you narrowed it down to a few options, then go to gun shops, Cabela's, and Sportsman's Warehouse, and check if you can see it in person. If you've done your homework and research, you'll know more than 95% of the staff. Now you're making the final decisions. Get their best price and if you've done your homework you already know the best online price.

Expect the store price to be higher. There's something to be said for buying locally if only because you can take it back easily. That's the higher price you pay for - ease of return and if you're lucky you'll get good personal service.

Nearly everything I buy is online where the prices are far better, but without the ease of a quick and fast return. However, nothing in the way of ammo, optics, firearms, or night sights, has ever needed to be returned. Most legitimate products come good out-of-the-box and are rarely in need of repair or replacement, but that's the chance I take.

I haven't seen a decent holster in a store in years. The nice ones (that depends on one's subjective opinion) are all online for me. Again, I've bought online holsters and haven't been disappointed though there's always a down-on-paper meeting of the minds first.

Go back online for your search. Have patience. Make it fun and not a chore.  Good luck.

[mrcabinet]

It depends on how much you want to spend, of course. Holosun has a good reputation and a strong following. I don't own one so I can't give any feedback on that brand or models. Of those that I do/have owned, the Burris FF3 is a solid classic that's never disappointed. Vortex and Riton have been good as well. My personal preference is a 2 or 3 moa dot, but some prefer the larger 6 sized dot. There's more options available these days, like shake-awake, to consider as well.

[Tanners Owner]

I have 3 optics- two SIGs and 1 vortex.  None are consider high end.

Key to me is which optic works best with my astigmatism, all of mine have a blur or bleed out, though not not too much.  I’ve looked at other high end- trijicon for example and the bleed/ blur was less than my SIGs and vortex.  If you have astigmatism in your dominant eye, ensure your are able to view them before buying.

Good luck

[Earl Keese]

For edc, I have an RMR(3moa), a 507C, a 407CO(8moa circle) and a 407K(6moa green).
 The RMR is nice, it deserves it's reputation as the market leader. I think it's worth the money if you have it to spend.
 The Holosuns are a close second, though I don't really care as much for the large circle reticle of the 507. I think the 407 with either a 6moa dot or 8moa circle is my favorite. Battery life is great on all of these, and none have failed me(all have been used in competition). Brightness in the sun has been good as well. For me, red is preferred over green.
 I also have 2 Burris FF3's, but those get used on airsoft pistols now for practice/play. The FF3's are not bright enough for use in direct sunlight...Holosun is a better choice for not much more money.
 I have had a Vortex Venom as well. Don't let the fancy warranty fool you...you will need it. After my second warranty replacement I sold mine sealed in factory packaging. They're too small, too dim, and fail too frequently. And Cabelas has gone way downhill since Basspro took over...

[Togmaster]

If your life depends on it Trijicon.

[no.vale.la.pena]

If it’s for a Shield, I would recommend a narrow form factor optic to fit the slide width. I was a long time Trijicon RMR user and but switched about 1.5 years ago to the holosun k footprint optics (3x 507ks and a circle-dot EPS, one of my slightly larger, non-carry models), the better feature set of the Holosun optics really pulled me in; plus they are have a solid reputation now.

I am really loving my new EPS, the enclosed emitter is great for a carry gun because it keeps lint off the emitter plus the window size is very comparable to much wider optics. I have also noticed I can use it on a slightly less bright setting than my 507ks, presumably because the closed emitter. The side change battery tray is extremely handy as well since it is highly advisable to set a very conservative specified time interval for battery changes on a carry gun to ensure there’s never any low battery issues (e.g. I divide the listed battery life in half, and set a reminder in my phone to replace). The low deck height of the the EPS is really nice as well, I believe it will work with stock iron heights on most set-ups (not sure about a Shield OR + plate but I’m sure you could fine that out) which makes the sight presentation more similar to traditional iron sights.

[Claymore504]

I have used nothing but Holosun and SwampFox for the past couple years and have been very happy with them. The LE/MIL porgram that SwampFox has is excellent and customer service is awesome as well. With the Shield you are limited to a certain footprint, so look into that.

[v35]

Thanks for all the replies but I have to ask you to dumb it down a bit for me. Remember I know even less about optics than the nice Cabela's kid who told me sighting my target through a pizza is supposed to be normal.

What's EPS?

Why Trijicon if my life depends on it? Does my life depend upon some battery powered piece of electronics, vs. the HK or S&W iron sights.

Is it going to work while all the others are going to fail when I need them? And why do they come in that nice padded box. Are they that delicate? Perhaps they are only supposed to be used on an AR platform and mounting them on a slide is going to break them.

What about cleaning? Doesn't the glass get dirty or contaminated with Hoppe's or oil. I doubt you're supposed to remove an optic from the slide every time you clean a gun, so how do you clean the glass? Do I have to worry about which types of gun cleaners I can use?

Bear in mind I used to worry using brake cleaning fluid would damage night sights...

Didn't know about SwampFox or their LE program so I'll look into that also. Thanks!

Meanwhile I can't get Holosun's website to load. I think they're using dialup.

[lewmed]

 I'm still a competitive shooter with iron sights but have been diagnosed with Glaucoma, Astigmatism and I'm developing Cataracts.  For my range toys it's Burris fastfire III's or Vortex venom I have 2 of each.  For EDC I like a Green dot  like the Holosun 507K and the 32 moa circle. The shake awake feature on the Holosun is so sensitive that the one I have on my bedside table pistol a Sig P365XL will light up when my 10 lb. Shih Tzu walks past my bed it's like a little nightlight.

[Earl Keese]

People say "Trijicon if your life depends on it" because the RMR is regarded as the toughest in this market segment(pistol mounted dots). In this case, "life depends on it" means it is durable enough for duty use, or for some that means every day carry. Is it as reliable and tough as a set of iron sights? It's electronic so of course not. That said, the housing on the RMR is designed(patented) so that the lens is very well protected if dropped. The circuitry is very robust as well.
 If you look up Sage Dynamics on youtube,  you will find some very thorough testing of various optics. To date, the RMR was shown to be most durable, with the HS507 series a close second last time I checked. Bottom line is, stick with one of those 2 brands and you'll be in good shape.

[timetofly]

Green works beautifully with older eyes or light damaged vision.  If Sig Sauer made a Romeo reflex sight with a green reticle I’d be all over it.  I like the simplicity of their controls and ease of use. 

[v35]

Just to make things more complicated: https://www.outdoorlife.com/gear/best-pistol-red-dots/

SwampFox's LE discount is 25% That's pretty good. And their website actually works.

[M1A4ME]

I have two Shield OR slides with Holoson dot sights on them.

The 3" has a 407.  Those don't fit a Plus OR slide without modifying the slide (which I did on the 3") or buying an adaptor plate (which I did on the 4").

If I'd known about the adaptor plate I bought for the 4" I'd have bought one for the 3".  No issues with either, just would have been quicker/easier with the adaptor plate.

The Shields are awesome shooters.  Small, light, reliable, and accurate.  Many small, light, reliable handguns can't claim the accuracy you can get from a Shield.

If you want to see what the 407's look like on the Shield slides:

3"



4"



The adaptor plate (ordered from Amazon by the way) worked perfectly.  Covers the rear posts, has the front posts, just what is needed for the Holoson 407.

Green?  Red?  Depends on your eyes.  I started with amber/read dots and over the years have found that green dots are easier for me to see.  I was an RMR guy.  Had two.  Carried/used them for about 10 years.  Had issues, sent them back to Trijicon and they sent non-working sights back to me with a note that said there was nothing wrong with them, they were just dirty.  I orderd a Holoson a day or so afterwards.  Will the Holosons be working 10 years from now?  I don't know but I might live long enough to find out.  For the difference in price vs. not being sure Trijicon will fix them if needed I buy Holosons.

Size of the dot?  Not sure it matters much.  I sight mine in so the bullet impact is at the top of the dot position on the target.  A 4 MOA dot may cover 4" at 100 yds.  At 25 yds. it's 1 inch.  At 10 yds. it a little less than 1/2 inch.  How small of a target do you figure to shoot?  And how far away?  Even at 100 yds. a 4" dot shouldn't be an issue.  You'll be more interested in bullet drop at 100 yds. than how big the dot is.