P-07 various issues

[Wayward_Angel]

Hey guys, just bought a P-07 and wanted to know if this is a common issue, break in or something.

NEW P-07 9x19 2023 production, using the new original CZ magazines that came with the gun, shooting Sellier & Bellot 124 grain FMJ.

Lubed and cleaned the gun every 50 rounds, shot 350 rounds through it and got many failures to feed, the round would get stuck halfway into the chamber, I have to give the slide a smack to get it into battery, sometimes its so bad I have to eject it.

Then there is the chaotic ejection. Sometimes the brass is ejected right into my face, then at 9 o'clock, 3 o'clock, sometimes the brass goes straight up and lands on the top of my hat. Also sometimes the slide cycles so slowly for 2-3 rounds it feels like in slow motion like CA-CHUNK, CA-CHUNK, something I only felt when shooting a semi-auto shotgun. Then suddenly it cycles at normal speed again, still shooting from the same magazine.

Cycling the empty gun by hand it feels smooth, no drag or grittiness. I have experience with tuning 1911 extractors and to me the extractor looks fine, the cartridges slip nicely under the extractor and is held firmly but not too firmly. The chamber looks clean and I cannot spot any burrs.

Its not the ammunition because my Glock 17, my P320 and my 92FS shoot it very well.

First I thought this was a break-in period but 350 rounds through it and its not getting any better, in fact it feels like it got a little worse.

Also, I have a lot of experience with firearms and I am a 6'1'' 245 lbs powerlifter so I kind of doubt I'm limp-wristing this specific pistol. 

[Grendel]

Welcome. Please take a few moments to familiarize yourself with all the sticky posts in the 'New Members' section and the other forums, together with the Help Topics in the 'Important Information' or 'FAQ' sub-section.

In the meantime, change the ammo. 9 times out of 10 that's the issue. The fact that it shoots okay in other pistols has no bearing on your CZ.

CZs are notorious for having short/tight chambers and are intolerant of ammunition which has a longer OAL than they like. There are innumerable threads in the ammo forum about this issue.

[radagast]

Ditto to Grendel's post !
     Wife and both have P07s with decent round counts of about 8K between them. We've had three(3) malfunctions total, and they all happened in one particular box of ammo. We've shot 115 & 124 mostly, but have tried others with minor changes in POI.
     All I can suggest is to try some other brands of ammo, take some notes, and speak with CZ if it continues to be a problem. If the chamber is out of tolerance, they would surely replace the barrel, or make adjustment in some way.

[Wayward_Angel]

Having to change ammo would be pretty bad as I have crates upon crates of S&B 124 grain as it just works in every pistol I have and ever had, same with my friends guns. I got the P07 for the role as a multi purpose pistol and it being ammo sensitive with service spec FMJ ammo (!) of all things is just a no go for me. As I mentioned I can throw whatever FMJ into my Sig and Glock and they will eat it without questions. My 9mm 1911 did the same thing as long as the ammo was not severely underpowered.

Today I tried some of my reloads, mixed brass, with a Fiocchi 124 grain FMJ with VVN340 4.8 grain OAL 1.141, chronoed 1160 fp/s out of a 4.5 barrel, a duplicate of a typical service round.
Removed the barrel and dropped every single round into the chamber to do a ''plunk'' test and they all worked fine. At the range I had the same issues I mentioned above, slide slowing down you could literally see it cycling, and rounds getting stuck halfway into the chamber.
I also got a box of S&B 115 grain and I ran in to the same issues, and that was hot stuff because recoil was noticeably harder.

As far as I know CZ has business ties with S&B and use 124 grain S&B ammunition to test their guns and to optimize them for this brand. I remember I saw a tour in the CZ factory and they shot S&B ammo at the range.

What I also did is make a long OAL dummy cartridge to see if its a tight chamber. My reloads and the S&B 124 grain have an OAL of 1.141, which is a typical OAL for 9mm. I took a 124 grain round nose Fiocchi FMJ I use for my reloads and at 1.200 it chambers and cycles fine, which is WAY long.

Is there a chance the gun simply needs more break-in?

I'll probably have to return it. Not sure why I have so much bad luck with CZ's , I had a CZ97B in .45 ACP and I had to return it because I could not get it to work (Live rounds got stuck between the slide and chamber every magazine, none of the 10 magazines I bought solved that issue - but I digress)

[Born2vette]

First off, call CZ and see what they say! No way to diagnose an issue like this on the internet. My P-07 Has eaten whatever I fed it but I do not have any S&B to try. Also, having spent quite a bit of time as an RSO whenever someone was havimg consistent issues like this it was usually ammo or limp wrist. Does not matter how big and strong you are you can still limp wrist.  Might ask a neutral observer to watch your grip while shooting.

When I first got my SP-01 I had a supply of S&B 124gr and it ran fine.


The only issue I have ever had is one of my pistols did not like Sig or Hornady HP ammo, the tip got caught on the feed ramp. No issues with Fed or Gold dot.

[Wayward_Angel]

I really doubt its limp wristing, I've been shooting pistols for over 15 years now and I've never had any issues like that with Glocks, Sigs the Beretta 92FS or Glocks in .45 and 1911 in .45.
Limp wristing was my first suspicion but I got FTF's while holding the gun with a grip so hard I could hear my knuckles crack and I could have easily done a 550lbs deadlift with it. And maintaining the same grip ejection patter was completely erratic and all over the place, literally.

It really feels like the slide is catching on something and having issues to accelerate to pick up a new cartridge and return to battery fully. But only every once in a while, for like 2-3 rounds ultimately ending in an FTF. After clearing the malfunction it cycles normally....for a while until it starts again.

I failed to mention I live outside the US so I contacted the CZ technical support in the Czech Republic giving an exact description of the problems and they simply wrote me to contact the dealer where I bought the gun.

This is all so frustrating.

[M1A4ME]

One magazine or all of them?

Empty the pistol and thumb cock the hammer a few times.  Does it make a clicking/crunching sound as the hammer is moved to the rear?  I've heard some nasty sounds on some of mine till I pulled the hammer out and smoothed out the long piece that has the coil hammer spring wrapped around it.  That piece actually had little divots worn out of the corners causing the spring to drag on it and bunch up and then pop loose (the clicking/crunching noises as the hammer was cocked).

Are you running the factory recoil spring assembly (captured flatwire spring on a plastic guide rod or an aftermarket metal guide rod and coil spring? 

Is your recoil spring the heavy factory weight or a reduced weight to reduce nose/muzzle dive when the slide goes forward?

How smooth is the feed ramp?  I've only had to polish the feed ramp on one of my CZs but it would jam every now and then till I did that.

If you use the sldie stop to release the slide and chamber a round, then eject that round and look at it (might need to do it several times) do you see any gouge/scrap marks on the bullet or case that might indicated a rough/sharp edge in the chamber that it catching the round being chambered and causing that slowdown/failure to chamber?  I've not had that on a CZ but I did on Storm Lake .40 S&W barrel for an M&P.

Is your hammer centered in the slot in the back of the slide?  I remember, a few years ago, some new P07 owners sharing pictures of their new P07s with the hammer leaning off to one side and rubbing the slide.  That might not (on it's one) be and issue but if things are far enough out of alignment it might be an issue for the hammer and hammer spring if the hammer pin is sitting up/down in relation to the other side of the frame.  Grasping at straws on this one.

Have you shot other ammo in it and does it do the same thing?  Buy a box of Federal or Winchester or a brand easier to find where you live and give it a try.  A box should be enough to tell if it's a problem or not.  Either way that gives you more information about what might be causing the issue.

And, CZ not wanting you to ship the pistol back?  That's not a thing over here in the US.  I've sent back two pistols for sight issues and when I told them what was wrong they e-mailed me the return authorization barcode/address labels and told me to FedEx it back to them.  One was repaired in 10 days and the other in about 3 weeks (pre covid vs. post covid??)

Good luck with it. 

[Claymore504]

This is not common, or a break in issue with the P07. I have owned 3 and the current one I won ran perfect out of the box. It sounds like you take care of yours and if it is all stock, there is a major issue. Give CZ a call. They have great CS from my experiences in the past. Keep us posted.

[Wayward_Angel]

@M1A4ME

Happens with both magazines that were supplied with the gun.

Cocked the hammer a few times, felt smooth and normal. Racking the slide on a decocked hammer does not feel unusually gritty or hard. 

Cannot tell the weight of the recoil spring - its the original one that came with the gun, plastic guide rod, no markings.

The feed ramp is pretty mediocre, comparable to a Glock or a Sig Sauer P320. Its not a mirror finish and there are a lot of wear marks from the projectiles on the upper third of the ramp (no marks below that area). Slowly chambering dummy rounds I do not feel excessive resistance though, there is a tiny little hiccup in the chambering process when the round slips underneath the extractor, more than on my Glock 17, but my Glock 17 has a couple 1000 rounds through it.
I worked on a couple 1911's and I know I could give the ramp a mirror polish with 800, 1000 grit sandpaper and then polish but I'm afraid that altering the gun like that would void my warranty and they then say its my modification that caused the issue in the first place and that I am on my own. Very risky.

The hammer is centered, no rub marks on the slide, the hammer does not wobble.

I chambered a dummy rounds a couple times, no weird marks or burrs on the brass nor the projectile. 

I shot 124 grain and 115 grain factory S&B ammo through it, but I also shot my own reloads with 4.8 grains of VVN340 1.141 OAL 124 grain Fiocchi FMJ. Had the same issue with all of them. Like mentioned before the chamber is not tight and even accepts 1.200 OAL with a 124 grain FMJ according to my test.

Thing is if I send the gun back they'll most likely shoot 2 magazines with no hiccup through it, call it a day and send it back. The problem pops up infrequently, sometimes several times in a row, sometimes 2-3 magazines with no FTF (but slow cycle speed). I intended to use the gun for training but also self defense and that kind of failure rate is completely unacceptable.

This is not common, or a break in issue with the P07. I have owned 3 and the current one I won ran perfect out of the box. It sounds like you take care of yours and if it is all stock, there is a major issue. Give CZ a call. They have great CS from my experiences in the past. Keep us posted.

Now I remember watching a video years ago, I think it was Nutnfancy's channel where he had the same issue with his P07, that it would infrequently have FTF with proper spec ball ammo. If I remember correctly he blamed the finish on the slide rails dragging and reducing slide velocity but even a polish did not help. The problem remained unsolved. His P09 did not have those issues. 

Good luck with it. 

Thank you

[Wayward_Angel]

Here is the barrel feed ramp and a little bit of copper deposit.



I polished it a LITTLE bit to see if it helps any. I could make it perfectly smooth but I don't want to break out coarser paper yet because I don't want to change any angles.



Also I just found out can induce the malfunction by simply slowly cycling the pistol.
Something I cannot do with any of my Glocks or P320, I cannot get the slide to stop like that.
Its the exact moment the rim fully slides under the extractor.
The extractor does not seem to have any burrs on it and it does not seem like the spring is too stiff.

[lebomb]

Yeah, this is a new one on me.  I have had 2 P07s that ran flawlessly with any type of ammunition.  I would head back to the location you bought it from like CZ recommended. 

[M1A4ME]

See the gouge/scratch marks on the brass just behind the case mouth on these .40 S&W rounds?  That's the kind of marks/scratches I was asking about on your brass.  This is from an M&P .40 with a Storm Lake barrel.  The angle of feed in my 1.0 M&P .40 resulted in the brass hitting the edge of the chamber and sort of bouncing to a stop.  Hit, move a bit, hit, move a bit, hit and stop before finishing the feeding of the round into the chamber.  Never did get it to stop and just took the barrel out and put the original back in (old pistol, old barrel, didn't complain to Storm Lake).  Some day I'll do some more polishing.



Those marks are an indicator that the bullet (if on the bullet) or brass are hitting steel and dragging or getting stuck.  Does your brass have marks similar to that?

Looking at your picture slower, it appears there was copper residue on the feed ramp but just inside the beginning of the chamber it looks like brass residue - from the case.  It looks like your brass is scraping the bottom entrance of the chamber while feeding into the chamber.  None of mine do that.  I know, I clean them every time I shoot them whether it's a box or just five shots.

I just field stripped my P07 .40, P09 9MM and P09 .40.  None of them have what looks like a lip, just inside the beginning of the chamber like it appears your barrel has.  I'm going to get some pictures of mine in a bit when I can get a low level (not so darn bright) light to shine on the chamber opening so you can see what mine look like.

[Wayward_Angel]

I'm getting some very faint vertical lines on the brass when I chamber a cartridge a couple times, tried it on two completely fresh pristine rounds. And I can rule out the feed lips as the lines go across the entire brass, the feed lips only contact about 2/3rds of the brass.
Though I think those are  relatively normal, all brass gets a little scratched up when chambered repeatedly. I know my AR puts straight vertical lines on the brass as well.
Before I polished the feed ramp and the edge of the chamber I got horizontal lines just like your brass - looked like this below the projectile:

(Also sorry about all the fibers stuck to the round, lol, I've got too many carpets)



Pictures of your barrel for comparison would be appreciated! 

[M1A4ME]

Yeah, scratches the length of the brass aren't what I'm talking about.  The picture of the .40 S&W cartridges I posted have little short lines across the brass at the case mouth, not down the case itself.

Here's the P09 .40 S&W ramp/chamber entrance.  I didn't polish these, I'd have gotten it smoother and shinier.



P09 9MM.  Again, I didn't polish this one.



P07 .40 S&W. 



All mine appear to be beveled after the barrel was finished/coated.

Looking at your picture again I'm really not sure if that's a lip, or a figment of the lighting/angle that makes me think it's got a small lip in there.  There's definitely brass case scraping residue on it.  The color difference between the feed ramp and the bottom/sides of farther up are easy to see.  Can you feel a sharp lip there at the bottom/sides where that brass residue is visible?

[Wayward_Angel]

The barrel of my 07 pretty much looks like the barrel of your 09 now, just a little bit smoother where the ramp transitions into the chamber / beveled area.
I took 1000 grit sand paper, wrapped it around a 223 case and polished and rotated it until it got a near-mirror finish right where most of the brass residue was. Now I don't get those horizontal lines.

Maybe that did the trick?