Lite Strike Issues after CGW Pro Package Install on my P-01

[PizzaPizza]

I have a stock CZ 75B and have loved it.  Never had any issues.  I finally "pulled the trigger" and got a P-01.  Love them both.  I took the new P-01 to the range one time and then took a pistol class before I sent it off to Cajun for the Pro-Package install.  I had zero issues before.

Got it back and loved how it felt.  First time out at the range I was shooting some Freedom Munitions 115 gr ammo I got from LAX Ammo.  I have used LAX Ammo reloads and new 115 gr without any issue.  Apparently these Freedom Munitions I got on sale are the same ammo as the bulk boxes of LAX ammo. 

I had about 3 lite strikes/failures to fire out of a couple hundred rounds. 

I reached out to someone at CGW and they thought it may be the ammo.  *I also had some FTF's in my 75B that was "stock", so that seemed to make sense.

Another time at the range using different ammo (Blazer, Fiocchi, Remington and Freedom) had about 3 or so more lite strikes again in the P-01.

I've been using 115's and 124's and have continued to have a few lite strikes each time I go out.

I also ran some Federal 115's without issue.  So, it seemed I was having ammo issues.

Here are some pics of 3 Lite Strikes vs 2 fired rounds.  I think one was Freedom, one a Fiocchi and the other a Winchester round.  Any thoughts on my issues?  I don't have a CCW, but want this P-01 to be as reliable, or more than my stock 75B has been.  I got the Pro-Package to improve the trigger, but also to hopefully have a more reliable pistol, not less. 

I was worried the 13# Hammer Spring my be too light, but CGW isn't flinching about this not being the issue, which I'm happy to hear, but after my last range trip, I sent them these to compare lite strikes with fired brass.




The two shorter rounds on the left are the fired brass.  Obvious, but just to be clear.  There's quite a difference in the primer strikes.  It does seem to me that the primers on the lite strike rounds are somewhat more recessed into the brass than the fired rounds. 

I sent these to CGW and they replied this morning that this seems to be a headspace issue without any further suggestions.  So,  I asked what that means as far as me fixing this issue and am awaiting their reply.

Anyone else have these issues?  Thanks in advance for any advice/experience.  I love this P-01 and have felt very supported by the CGW team as I've been testing working through this. 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

You posted this same question in the compact section and I replied as well as others. Asking in a different section won't change the responses much. As I previously resonded to your question I had the same issue and I moved up to the 15lb spring and the light strikes went away. Until someone proves otherwise I personally think CGW has gotten a batch of weak 13lb springs and they won't set off some of the harder primers out there. As to primers being recessed if you check rounds that have not been fired or attempted to fire the primers should be at least flush to slightly recessed. Primers MUST be seated as far into the pocket as they will go. Besides that you seem to be having issues with new manufacture ammo not just reloads.
I would try the next higher weight spring and see what happens otherwise you will be stuck with an ammo sensitive gun and you'll only be able to fire ammo that it likes. I bet of you buy a box of Federal ammo the light strikes will go away because Federal primers are known to be the softest available.
There is also a slight possibilty of a timing issue and if that's the case CGW will need the gun back.

[tdogg]

Have you done a pencil test.  Do both DA and SA have the same pencil launch?  Any chance the light strikes are from DA shots only?

Barring a bad main spring, the extended firing pin and 13lb spring should light off anything.  If the hammer is short stroking in DA then it wouldn't have the same energy and could cause ignition problems.

If it is an ammo issue you must be the most unlucky person ever.  I can count on one hand the number of light strikes I've had with my reloads (north of 30k rounds).  They all ignite after a second impact.  Have you tried to just hit it again when it does happen?  This would indicate that the primer wasn't seated properly during loading.  I can't imagine you getting that across a number of different brands that frequently.

Cheers,
Toby

[PizzaPizza]

Have you done a pencil test.  Do both DA and SA have the same pencil launch?  Any chance the light strikes are from DA shots only?

Barring a bad main spring, the extended firing pin and 13lb spring should light off anything.  If the hammer is short stroking in DA then it wouldn't have the same energy and could cause ignition problems.

If it is an ammo issue you must be the most unlucky person ever.  I can count on one hand the number of light strikes I've had with my reloads (north of 30k rounds).  They all ignite after a second impact.  Have you tried to just hit it again when it does happen?  This would indicate that the primer wasn't seated properly during loading.  I can't imagine you getting that across a number of different brands that frequently.

Tdogg,

Good questions.  I did do a pencil test and it seemed to worked with both DA and SA.  I didn't keep track of whether or not the light strikes were DA or SA.  But, I think they were SA because they were never on the first round fired out of a magazine.  YES, they did fire upon a 2nd strike in all cases, but one which took 3. 

As to my luck, I have never had any issues at all with my stock 75B with any ammo.  You bring up a good point about luck though.  I can't be THAT unlucky getting lite strikes in so many different brands of ammo!  To me that then points to something not being right in the gun...hammer spring or something in the firing pin mechanism?  TBD.

I did speak with CGW today.  They continue to be extremely helpful and available to discuss this issue.  I tested the headspace with a strip of paper (Post-it) placed between the round and the firing pin block (with the slide removed from the lower) per their instructions.  It seems I am fine with the headspace, based on the test.  So, the next step he thinks is taking a look at the firing pin mechanism to inspect everything.  He suggested I send it in, so I'm waiting for the work order and will ship them the slide for further inspection. 

I did ask about the 13# Main Spring and reading in a few forums that some have said there could be issues with 13# spring vs a stronger spring being more solidly reliable.  He was very confident saying this is not the issue and they have 100's of thousands of pro packages out there with 13's that do not have this issue. 

Curious, why would there be a short stroking issue when firing from DA vs SA as you mentioned?  What would cause that? 

Thanks for the advice and questions.  I'll update when I learn more. 

[PizzaPizza]

You posted this same question in the compact section and I replied as well as others. Asking in a different section won't change the responses much. As I previously resonded to your question I had the same issue and I moved up to the 15lb spring and the light strikes went away. Until someone proves otherwise I personally think CGW has gotten a batch of weak 13lb springs and they won't set off some of the harder primers out there. As to primers being recessed if you check rounds that have not been fired or attempted to fire the primers should be at least flush to slightly recessed. Primers MUST be seated as far into the pocket as they will go. Besides that you seem to be having issues with new manufacture ammo not just reloads.
I would try the next higher weight spring and see what happens otherwise you will be stuck with an ammo sensitive gun and you'll only be able to fire ammo that it likes. I bet of you buy a box of Federal ammo the light strikes will go away because Federal primers are known to be the softest available.
There is also a slight possibilty of a timing issue and if that's the case CGW will need the gun back.

SI VIS,
Oops!  Got me!  Yes I did.  Guilty! 

Thanks for the reply again.  I figured I'd post it in the CGW forum and added the photos of the rounds.

See my reply below.  I did speak to CGW today and they were quite confident it isn't the 13# spring.  But, I'm sending in the slide for them to inspect further.  Will keep you posted.

[tdogg]

Curious, why would there be a short stroking issue when firing from DA vs SA as you mentioned?  What would cause that? 

Thanks for the advice and questions.  I'll update when I learn more.

The Pro package comes with a different disconnector.  The disconnector is what controls the position of the trigger at rest (takes up trigger pretravel) and also actuates the hammer during the DA trigger pull.  If the timing was off on the new disconnector it could be releasing the hammer before the firing pin block is fully released.  The hammer should get to nearly full cock before releasing during a dual action trigger pull.  You can test this at home (with a verified empty chamber!) by slowly dry firing a DA trigger pull and taking note of where the hammer is when it releases.  Compare that to the position of the hammer when cocked back for single action firing.  If the hammer drops in DA less than ~1/2-2/3 of full cock, you may have timing issues. 

Another thing that could be an issue is if there is something in the firing pin channel that is impeding the firing pin movement.  It might be worth pulling the firing pin out and inspecting for signs of debris/damage on the firing pin channel, firing pin, firing pin block, and the firing pin retaining pin.  If nothing is noted, cleaning it and reassembling it dry (no lube, only a light rust preventative wiped off).

If you are going to send it to CGW, I would send the entire firearm back so they can verify the pro package install completely.  I'm not sure I'd just send the slide in.

Cheers,
Toby

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Well I will be interested to see what CGW says and what remedy they provide. I had used the 13lb spring previously without issue in 2 different guns and to be honest I even used one in a Beretta 92FS without issue but those springs were purchased several years ago. The recent (post plandemic) versions I got with actually 4 different pro packs gave light strikes with known hard primers which is why I moved to the 15lb spring and that cured the issue.

[PizzaPizza]

Curious, why would there be a short stroking issue when firing from DA vs SA as you mentioned?  What would cause that? 

Thanks for the advice and questions.  I'll update when I learn more.

The Pro package comes with a different disconnector.  The disconnector is what controls the position of the trigger at rest (takes up trigger pretravel) and also actuates the hammer during the DA trigger pull.  If the timing was off on the new disconnector it could be releasing the hammer before the firing pin block is fully released.  The hammer should get to nearly full cock before releasing during a dual action trigger pull.  You can test this at home (with a verified empty chamber!) by slowly dry firing a DA trigger pull and taking note of where the hammer is when it releases.  Compare that to the position of the hammer when cocked back for single action firing.  If the hammer drops in DA less than ~1/2-2/3 of full cock, you may have timing issues. 

Another thing that could be an issue is if there is something in the firing pin channel that is impeding the firing pin movement.  It might be worth pulling the firing pin out and inspecting for signs of debris/damage on the firing pin channel, firing pin, firing pin block, and the firing pin retaining pin.  If nothing is noted, cleaning it and reassembling it dry (no lube, only a light rust preventative wiped off).

If you are going to send it to CGW, I would send the entire firearm back so they can verify the pro package install completely.  I'm not sure I'd just send the slide in.

Cheers,
Toby

Toby,
Thanks.  Here's a quick trigger test...on an empty chamber.  Left handed.  It definitely is releasing much sooner in DA than SA in this case.  Is this what you mean?

Video here:
https://imgur.com/a/g8mgmpu

Thanks

[tdogg]

Yes, that is what I was curious about.  The video shows that the hammer in DA is cocking about 2/3rds the full cocked hammer.  This looks normal to me.  It could be a little short but it doesn't look concerning to me in my experience.  You can confirm the timing by looking at the firing pin block lever (from the rear) while you pull the trigger.  It should be fully raised before the hammer drops when going through the DA trigger pull.

Cheers,
Toby

[Wobbly]

The great thing about an exposed hammer gun is that you can pull the trigger a second time. Just wondering if you tried that on any of these ?

I'm not sure what to think about the general condition of primers being used in factory reloads these days.

[PizzaPizza]

The great thing about an exposed hammer gun is that you can pull the trigger a second time. Just wondering if you tried that on any of these ?

I'm not sure what to think about the general condition of primers being used in factory reloads these days.

Yes, I did pull the trigger a 2nd time and all except one round fired.  That one took a 3rd pull and fired.  I've never had anything like this happen.  I can't be this unlucky to have been having so many ammo issues.  So, I want to make sure this new P-01 is fixed and "100%" reliable. 

[Wobbly]

I've never had anything like this happen.  I can't be this unlucky to have been having so many ammo issues.  So, I want to make sure this new P-01 is fixed and "100%" reliable.

• Second strike requirements can be a primer that's not fully seated. This is common in the world of reloaded ammo. The first strike drives it home, the second strike ignites it. Nothing you can do about poorly loaded ammo except buy from a different vendor or begin reloading yourself.

• Just to make sure it's not on your end, clean the gun, including the firing pin, FP channel, slide rails and hammer.  Then re-lube with thin (like 0W20) synthetic motor oil. Some CZ's do require a break-in period. My P01 was one of them.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=120249.0

[PizzaPizza]

Clean the gun, including the firing pin, FP channel, slide rails and hammer.  Then re-lube with thin (like 0W20) synthetic motor oil. Some CZ's do require a break-in period. My P01 was one of them.


https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=120249.0

Thanks.  I hope that's the case.  My contact at CGW asked me to send him the Slide so he can look at it.  Hopefully, it's something simple.  He assures me the 13# spring isn't an issue.  We'll see what he says next week.  Crossing fingers.

[Wobbly]

I was adding more to my comment while you were responding. Go back and read more.

[PizzaPizza]

I was adding more to my comment while you were responding. Go back and read more.

Wobbly, thanks again!  Good info.  I love my 75B and it has run flawless.  The P-01 is the first hand gun I've decided to do some work on and certainly hope and want it to be "flawless".  Appreciate your advice.