Author Topic: Looking for updated scale recommendations.  (Read 5802 times)

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Offline oneoff

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2023, 03:17:27 PM »
I've had a lot of bad luck with scales.  I agree "strongly" with cautions already posted in this thread, and have often used two or even 3 scales to double-check.
The one that I trust is a Lyman/Ohaus M5.  The are older, but there are some good deals on eBay as I write this.  If you can get one for less than a hundred, I'd buy it over anything new until you get up into the several hundred dollar digital ones.  And I'd still trust it more.
  Practice till you find a scale that "feels" repeatable, own good check-weights, take good care of them, and use them often.
  Then double-measure regularly.
  And if it still don't feel right, move on to another scale!

I can't tell you what a pure joy it is (after all my trouble) to use that M5.  It feels like I'm hanging out with a friend.  And I still don't trust it fully until verified. 

Offline Davehb

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2023, 06:19:10 PM »
Lack of Scales, and calipers was holding me up.
Calipers finally came in yesterday after 3 week wait.

I just got an Ohaus Lyman M5 delivered today.
Looked brand new. I was little skeptical, but fella said he hadn’t cleaned it up.
Can’t wait to get home and try it out. 
 
Guess I went a little overboard though. 
I made offers on 3 different ones on eBay, and all 3 accepted. 😳
Picked up an rcbs 5-10, and an Ohaus 10-10. 
 
5-10 only one I looked at so far. Everything looked good. Missing the nylon set screw, which I already knew, but I can make one. 

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2023, 11:04:19 AM »
Guess I went a little overboard though. 
I made offers on 3 different ones on eBay, and all 3 accepted. 😳

So what I do with a new-to-me scale is...
• Sharpen and clean the knife edges with a diamond hone
• Wipe case lube on the bare knife edges to prevent rust
• Clean the gemstone pivots with alcohol on an ear swab
• Then carefully assemble the beam onto the body and zero
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Offline E.Shell

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2023, 02:00:15 PM »
I use balance-beam type scales myself. Ohaus rebranded as RCBS.

My first one was purchased in 1971 when I began reloading. I had rifle problems* in the 90's that I initially attributed to scale problems and bought a new scale, only to find out my old one worked fine.

I worked electronics in the 70s and 80s and one of my jobs was to repair and calibrate electronic lab scales. While I admit scales have come a long way since those days, I saw enough weird malfs to never want an electronic scale for handloading use. One of my handloading students was a doc for a pharmaceutical company and really gave me hard time about my Luddite use of balance beams, but I like feeling confident with my measurements.


*I had a grossly overbore long range rifle (6.5-300Wby) and had unknowingly developed hard carbon deposits in the throat, raising pressures with formerly safe loads - I mistakenly thought my scale was weighing light and I was using too much powder.
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Offline Thauglor

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2023, 07:37:51 PM »
I use an rcbs chargemaster scale/dispenser combo, works good for me and my silhouette shooting out to 500 meters.  Have had it for 4 to 5 years and loaded a couple of thousand rounds so far, no issues and works great for single loading.  By the time I seat the bullet and get the cartridge finished, the next powder charge is ready in the pan

Offline Davehb

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Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2023, 10:13:52 PM »
Guess I went a little overboard though. 
I made offers on 3 different ones on eBay, and all 3 accepted. [emoji15]

So what I do with a new-to-me scale is...
• Sharpen and clean the knife edges with a diamond hone
• Wipe case lube on the bare knife edges to prevent rust
• Clean the gemstone pivots with alcohol on an ear swab
• Then carefully assemble the beam onto the body and zero
Exactly what I did.

The M5 and 10-10 both get the same readings on time after time switching from the weight that comes with them for + 500 grain, and the same bullet plus 500 gram weight.
Both show weight marked 260 grain to be 259.9 time after time.

m5 gave me fits for a bit. Kept having to relevel.
Took gemstones out and it had tiny piece of fluff wedged under it preventing free pivot l.
 The M5 was new. Box was aged but Still had original instruction book, and the beam powder trays etc wrapped in original plastic. 
 
The 5-10 works just needs gems cleaned underneath I think.


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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2023, 10:16:00 AM »
This image has been posted here before, but it serves a useful purpose...



• ACCURACY means that what your scale reads is actually the true weight. It's nice when several scales all give the same reading, but that's NOT accuracy. The only way to achieve accuracy is to use "check weights", which are themselves traceable to the Bureau of Weights and Standards.

Secondly (and this is my pet peeve about electronic scales), is to zero the scale with a 20gram (308.6gr) check weight, and then believe your pistol loads around 4.5gr are correct. No sir, the scales need to be "zeroed" in the range where you will be using them. IOW, you need to "zero" at 5gr in this instance.

• REPEATABILITY means that when you come back a week later, a month later, a year later... that you get the same reading. No YouTube video, no authoritatively written testimony, no 5 star rating can prove repeatability. "The proof is in the pudding."


There is basically 1 failure mode for a balance beam, fouling of the pivots. That is to say inaccuracy on a balance beam is most likely a percentage of the reading, in which case the accuracy is plotted as a straight line. (The Green line in the cartoon.)

Whereas there are proabably 20+ failure modes for an electronic scale. So many, that most are hidden from the "average Joe". And these failure modes can come in multiples, where a cool draft may raise the readings at the low end, and then have internal frictions that lower the readings above a certain range.  (The Red line in the cartoon.)

And of course, while you can see that "fluff ball" fouling your balance beam pivots, but you will never see software errors, cool drafts, low power, dead batteries, friction in the mechanism,  stretching of the load cell, etc, etc in your electronic scale.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 05:49:31 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline timetofly

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2023, 07:46:17 PM »
If I were looking for a balance scale, I’d buy a Redding no.2.  I like the graduations for the needle where if you go up 5 ticks and 5 ticks down, you know you’re balanced.  Just my preference, it speeds things up a tad but is still safe and accurate.
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Offline Oklahoma Jim

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2023, 02:22:27 PM »
Does anyone have experience with the automatic powder measures/scales from RCBS, etc.?

Offline Davehb

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2023, 07:28:18 PM »
Got scales Situation ironed out now beating my head against wall on case length gage.

Note: Starline brass is 0.3490" inside dimensions.
The Lee 90153 case length gauge was 0.351".
Currently 0.350" and still working on getting it down. 
 
I’m a stickler for everything being uniform.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 06:56:17 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2023, 07:09:32 AM »
The Lee 90153 case length gauge was 0.351".
Currently 0.350" and still working on getting it down. 
 
I’m a stickler for everything being uniform.

• SAAMI case length is 0.350" to 0.340" for 9x19 Luger.  Sammi Centerfire Pistol specs

• Pistol brass gets shorter over time simply by going through the reloading process.

While it's great to be careful, and if a little OCD helps you get there, then fine. But IMHO your actions here are wasted motion.
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Offline tdogg

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Re: Looking for updated scale recommendations.
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2023, 01:11:04 AM »
Got scales Situation ironed out now beating my head against wall on case length gage.

Note: Starline brass is 0.3490" inside dimensions.
The Lee 90153 case length gauge was 0.351".
Currently 0.350" and still working on getting it down. 
 
I’m a stickler for everything being uniform.

I wouldn't trim pistol cases.  They get shorter with use due to the base of the case expanding to fill the chamber.  If you want uniform cases that will chamber every time, look into roll sizing.  It will return your cases to original length and remove any "glock" bulge.

I'm with Wobbly on this, this is a waste of time with pistol reloading.  Precision rifle, sure you need to trim and uniform cases.

Cheers,
Toby

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