Shadow 2: Question About Safety When Carrying Chambered or In-Battery?

[Misanthrope]

Greetings to All,

While I'm familiar with a number of different brands and models of semi-autos, I'm admittedly brand new to CZ firearms and to this CZ Forum, but I've got a relatively straight forward question specific to the CZ Shadow 2.

I recently purchased a new Shadow 2 Orange, and I'm incredibly impressed with it's overall feel and performance, but unlike several other semi-autos that I own (e.g., Interarms/Walther ppk/s, Sig Sauer p226 Legion, etc.), it has a standard (1911 style), rather than decocking style of safety.

So, my chief question is this (and please forgive my ignorance on this topic) . . . but is it considered safe by most to carry firearms like the Shadow 2 with a round fully chambered and safety fully engaged, with the hammer either a) fully cocked or b) partially (half) cocked?

Thanks to all who choose to respond, and I'll be most grateful for the thoughts and expertise of experienced others here who are more familiar with this particular pistol.

Cheers!🍸

[Lock-n-load]

Totally depends on your ability to use the safety. And control the firearm. Can you do it conforbaly and safely with a 1911?then you could with a cz. Practice useing a safety takes time. Or keep in double action and lower the hammer.

[tdogg]

With the factory hammer and sear you should not be able to activate the safety with the hammer at half cock.  The only time you should be able to activate the safety is when the hammer is fully cocked.  It is completely safe to carry the firearm with the hammer fully cocked and safety on.

It is completely safe to carry the firearm with the hammer at the half cock position and the safety off.

If you choose to lower the hammer fully, then you should know that if the firearm is dropped and it lands on the hammer, it could discharge the firearm.  There is no firing pin block on the shadow variants and thus the firing pin could impact the cartridge.  I will say it is mostly safe to carry the firearm with the hammer fully down and safety off.

Personally I'd carry it at the half cock position but I'm not sure I'd carry a Shadow 2 Orange regardless.

Cheers,
Toby

[Crawl]

Tdogg said what needs to be said with regard to mechanical concerns.  CZs are safe to carry clocked and locked. The other risks/concerns are environmental.

After accounting for any mechanical risks, by choosing a firearm and holster that pass the holster safety checks, you need to mitigate any other risks.  Carrying with the hammer decocked is an option.  Carrying with an empty chamber is another option that some people employ.  I personally do not see the benefit of carrying a firearm in Double Action (hammer decocked). This isn't the place for a debate, I mention it merely to point out that even though I disagree with Toby's preference, we still use a similar process for identifying the risks and mitigation options.

Environmental risks include anything that could change the condition of the firearm without you being aware of it.

For example, if you carry a Shadow with the wide safety instead of the thin ones (my S2 came with both), you run a greater risk of the safety becoming disengaged unintentionally.  How much risk?  That's for you to decide.

Some people point out the risk of a firing pin blockage if you carry with a fully clocked hammer.  Carrying decocked would mitigate this.

Those are two examples of why you have to decide the risks and tradeoffs you're willing to accept.

[Misanthrope]

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for the detailed replies here, and to be honest, I'm somewhat surprised that there are so many differing opinions. My Shadow 2 (S2), is so new to me that I am still familiarizing myself with its subtelties, and it definitely functions somewhat differently than other semi-autos that I own, even those that are relatively similar.

I think the most striking difference is the option for a 'half-cocked' hammer, and to be clear, it 'IS' possible to engage the safety with hammer only half-cocked (I have a photo, but don't know how to attach it here?). You simply chamber a round and slowly lower the hammer with slight pressure on the trigger, and obviously, this then requires a double-action trigger pull, rather than single-action (as when fully-cocked), but that was at the heart of my question.

For starters, the S2 is obviously quite large and heavy, and so yes, it is unlikely that I will ever carry it, but by example, in an immediate personal defense circumstance, I would have no issue with a required double-action pull weight (hammer half-cocked and safety engaged), IF it was inherently safer than single-action (fully-cocked) with safety engaged. I hope that makes sense?

So unless I'm missing something, it seems to me that the question is rather straight forward . . .

Since the safety can be engaged regardless of hammer position (either half- or fully cocked), is one of those options safer than the other, regardless of whether the firearm is actuated via single- or double-action?

[Crawl]

Do not pull the trigger with the safety engaged if the hammer is not fully cocked. You can damage the sear.

[Misanthrope]

Do not pull the trigger with the safety engaged if the hammer is not fully cocked. You can damage the sear.

Yeah, no, I would not do that, but thanks.

[Crawl]

To be clear, the safety likely WOULD NOT function to prevent the hammer from dropping AND could damage the sear.

[Misanthrope]

To be clear, the safety likely WOULD NOT function to prevent the hammer from dropping AND could damage the sear.

I appreciate your feedback on this topic, and I apologize for perhaps being a bit slow, but it's not quite clear to me just what it is that you're saying here . . .

Are you saying that with a round fully chambered, and the hammer being gently lowered to a position of half-cocked (i.e., double-action trigger pull weight required to actuate), and the safety fully engaged, that the firearm could still discharge??

If so, that seems to defy all manner of logic when it comes to the design and purpose of a safety.

[Crawl]

Yes, you're following.

On all DA/SA CZs, with the hammer decocked, pulling the trigger will discharge a round.

On normal, factory CZs the safety will not engage with the hammer decocked, so there is no question whether the safety will function correctly.

On race guns, sometimes the safety can be engaged even when the pistol is decocked, but it will not necessarily prevent a round from being discharged if the trigger is pulled. This is the nature of race hammers. Doing so can/will damage the sear.

Only apply the safety when the hammer is cocked.

[tdogg]

What I stated was only partially true, you shouldn't be able to actuate the safety with the hammer fully down with the factory hammer and sear.  I just checked my Accushadow 2 and you can infact activate the safety at half cock?! If the gun has a aftermarket hammer and sear installed then it is most likely possible you can activate it both at half cock and fully down.

It is detailed by CGW (premier gunsmith for CZ's) here:  https://cajungunworks.com/installation-instructions/manual-safety-hammer-installation-instructions/

I'll quote the pertinate verbiage:

Please note the only time the manual safety should be applied regardless of what parts are being used, is when the hammer is at full cock.  The manual safety function cannot be changed or altered when using a performance hammer.  The manual safety should only be applied “up” or on when the pistol is fully cocked in the single-action mode.  Never apply the safety up with the hammer fully lowered.  Do not attempt to use the DA with the manual safety applied in the “up” or on position.

Regardless you should only ever apply (and rely on) the safety when the hammer is fully cocked as Crawl (and CGW) mentioned.

To you question on whether to carry locked and cocked or hammer at half cock, that is a personal preference.  With locked and cocked, you have to flip the safety off before use.  With it carried at half cock you just pull the trigger.  I'm a fan of K.I.S.S.  Both modes require training to become a proficient/subconcious routine.

Cheers,
Toby

[Misanthrope]

Well, my sincere thanks to all who contributed here, and given what I've learned from it, it sounds like there are really only two feasible (i.e., safe) options when it comes to carrying this particular firearm:

1) Carry it chambered, with hammer fully-cocked and safety engaged, or . . .

2) Don't carry it chambered.

[Crawl]

It doesn't seem like a major issue to carry it at half cock with the safety disengaged, but I don't see the value in it. That being said, we don't all have the same training. Even the CZ defensive handbook says to carry at half cock...I just think it's less than ideal for my training.

[Misanthrope]

. . . Even the CZ defensive handbook says to carry at half cock....

Interesting. I don't know what others might choose, but speaking strictly from the standpoint of personal preference, I'd rather do that (half-cocked, no safety, double action), than carry it fully-cocked with safety engaged (single action).

[Crawl]

As long as it is in a holster that truly protects the trigger from being pulled AND you can ensure that the safety will NOT be disengaged inadvertently, risk has been mitigated.

Those are two crucial steps though.

For the same reason, I advocate against all AR safeties that are not a 90° throw.