Author Topic: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........  (Read 7173 times)

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Offline crc4

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2024, 06:41:48 PM »
I view gun makers as a fluid entity.

When I began buying guns in 1968, Winchesters had been trash since 1964, Colt revolvers were poorly made and were a distant 2nd choice to S&W while their 1911s were the only game in town and still decent, Rugers were climbing in acceptance, Remington still made quality shotguns and rifles, Brownings and Weatherbys were top-tier firearms, FN BHPs were a quality firearm, and Marlin made lever-actions that were top-of-the-mark. Ithaca shotguns were well-made and I carried several for bird-hunting. S&W was still the top dog in revolvers.

Fifty-six years later the old-name brands have come and gone, changed in quality from good to bad and back to good (sometimes), and new brands have displaced the prestige of older brands.

Palmetto State has gone from being seen as a 3rd rate maker to an outstanding producer of firearms and parts. I know of no other gun maker who has turned their image around like Palmetto. Twenty years ago I wouldn't have bought anything connected to Palmetto. Now, I'd happily buy whatever they produce if it met my needs. Palmetto turned a sinking ship into an ocean liner and since they sell directly to consumers, have eliminated the distributor/dealer markups.

Does CZ have problems? Yes, but it is more than a "Colt" influence.

20 years ago CZ was the newcomer knocking off Colt, S&W, Beretta, and other semi-auto makers with serious inroads into the market share. Their long arms were extremely well-made and along with their pistols, great value for the money. I bought the 75B, the 97B, the P-01 Omega, and a Mannlicher-stock .22, All are excellent pistols and rifle and I do not regret my choices.

Now it's 2024 and there is more competition with many makers producing firearms equal to or surpassing CZ for less money. Modern machinery, CNC, new designs, and new thoughts about how to make firearms is better than ever.

As much as I would have liked to buy a new pistol from CZ this year, I went instead with a Masada Slim 9mm and I'm impressed with the quality and accuracy. Canik and other makers are producing good guns at good values, and new product lines are coming out all the time.

While many of us love guns for different reasons, we are in the minority as most people are buying pistols for self-defense and care not one whit about the internals, mag wells, fancy stocks, and every pistol competition where $2,000 plus barely gets you in the door in the pistol world.

Guns that might be considered pedestrian by some, are the bread and butter of gun sales. People want a gun they can easily use for SD and don't know or care about compensators, threaded barrels, and a $400 red dot. They want protection and could care less about CZ, Colt, or S&W.

CZ has competition from all directions and in many cases, CZ is getting its lunch eaten.  I remember when Ford, Chevy, and Dodge were the big three. Now, if someone gave me one of their vehicles I'd sell it and buy a Toyota or Honda. Jeeps are now made by Fiat - if that doesn't make you laugh something's wrong.

CZ has rested on its laurels for some time. It's not that Colt created the problem, but that CZ hasn't done anything new or innovative in some time. Churning out another model based on an older model isn't working. That's a dangerous position to be in for 2024 going forward. Instead of being an innovator, CZ is playing catchup and they'll either respond or in a few years Fiat will be making their firearms.

While I'll buy new guns this year, I doubt any will be CZs.

Offline lebomb

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2024, 11:34:43 AM »
I feel CZ was inovative until they were bought out by Colt.  The P10 series was amazing when it arrived.  Since then, all they have been doing is discontinuing models left and right.  Streamlining I assume.  Maybe if CZ does produce a gen 2 P10 series we will see a new micro and an upgraded P10.  We shall see.   :o
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Offline crc4

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2024, 12:22:30 PM »
I feel CZ was inovative until they were bought out by Colt.  The P10 series was amazing when it arrived.  Since then, all they have been doing is discontinuing models left and right.  Streamlining I assume.  Maybe if CZ does produce a gen 2 P10 series we will see a new micro and an upgraded P10.  We shall see.   :o

CZ had problems before Colt. It's now fashionable to blame Colt, but the downfall began over the last five years.

I don't care for Colt - their firearms are third-rate in today's market. But to blame Colt 'management' as though CZ wasn't responsible for its failures is naive.

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2024, 01:05:26 PM »
I feel CZ was inovative until they were bought out by Colt. 

<snip!>

For the last (hopefully) time - Colt was bought by CZ, not the other way around.  If I have to say it again I'm going to give you all a time-out for not listening....

Edit to add:  https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2KH3HO/

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2024, 01:12:51 PM »
Saw similar things where I worked for 30 years.  It went from the largest manufacturing plant making that product in the world to being  half the size it was 20 or so years ago.  The guys that started up the plant got old and started retiring.  Corporate management got more involved with who got hired (in management) and what products/policies we pursued.  Then a few yeas later corporate made a very large very boneheaded mistake (mostly out of pride/revenge) and many of the divisions in the corporation were sold off to gain money to get out of the hole they dug.  We were one of them.  Things went further down him as the big corporation (once one of our rivals) bought us.  A corporation run by people who could tell you what to cut to same money but had no idea what to buy to increase sales/profits.  They're called MBA's.  We would "save" $250,000 in needed repairs to meet budget for the year in an area only to have it cost us $650,000 in profits on the products that didn't get made due to machine down time.  Not even counting the regular unnecessary maintenance costs incurred during the repeated breakages of old parts.

And people, over the years continually blamed the company that bought us.  But the issues started when the start up guys who built the place began to retire from the company.  We shouldn't blame the new management for things that were done by the people they replaced.

I like the CZ85.  When did CZ stop making those?

Lots of guys like the stainless steel CZ75's.  When did they stop making those?

People liked the Rami.  When did they stop making those?

People lied the .40 S&W Compacts.  When did they stop making those?

I'm probably missing other pistols/rifles as well.  Talk about the facts, not talk with emotion.  If I'm wrong about the time/dates CZ stopped making some of the pistols I liked, feel free to speak up.

Only CZ's I've bought the last 3 years or so are old models I liked then and still do know.  I got a replacement P07 .40 (made in 2010) and a CZ75 Omega made in 2014 or 2015.  For the last few years CZ hasn't made guns that I feel the need for.  Hate that but I'm the one not changing.  If they hoped I'd buy the new stuff they just made a mistake.  We all do that.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline lebomb

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2024, 02:30:58 PM »
I feel CZ was inovative until they were bought out by Colt. 

<snip!>

For the last (hopefully) time - Colt was bought by CZ, not the other way around.  If I have to say it again I'm going to give you all a time-out for not listening....

Edit to add:  https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2KH3HO/

My bad, I misspoke. When CZ merged and purchased colt is when I saw them basically ignore CZ products. Sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.
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SailDesign

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2024, 03:00:56 PM »
For the last (hopefully) time - Colt was bought by CZ, not the other way around.  If I have to say it again I'm going to give you all a time-out for not listening....

Edit to add:  https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2KH3HO/

My bad, I misspoke. When CZ merged and purchased colt is when I saw them basically ignore CZ products. Sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.

No hurt feelings here - just amazed by what I took for a lack of reading comprehension in someone that seems fairly intelligent.  ;D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 08:05:39 AM by Wobbly »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2024, 03:40:08 PM »
Yes Colt Was bought by CZ but they have allowed Colt to take the reins in many aspects of the US operations. It is a Fact that most of the people in KC have been replaced by Colt people and some newbies. The old guard that made CZ-USA a shining star is gone. Yes CZ has had issues in recent years. The polymer Rami was garbage. The early P-07 DUTY models had many problems. The rollout of the P10C was anything but stellar and those guns had issues. They still have QC issues with the P10 line. One of the 2 P10's I own is sitting in KC waiting on warranty repairs at this moment and it's a 2023 made gun. Regardless of any issues they have had in the past several years CZ always had top notch customer service and went well above the rest with warranty issues. Today at best they are no better than anyone else and that is a shame.

Offline lebomb

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2024, 11:09:23 AM »
My bad, I misspoke. When CZ merged and purchased colt is when I saw them basically ignore CZ products. Sorry I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.

No hurt feelings here - just amazed by what I took for a lack of reading comprehension in someone that seems fairly intelligent.  ;D

Nice jab and left hook.  :D

No worries, it was just a mistake.  I know CZ bought Colt. But as I said it looks like CZ product has been put on the back burner for now IMHO. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 08:06:15 AM by Wobbly »
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SailDesign

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2024, 01:13:08 PM »
Nice jab and left hook.  :D

No worries, it was just a mistake.  I know CZ bought Colt. But as I said it looks like CZ product has been put on the back burner for now IMHO.

:)

Shame there is no "Like" button - I'd have used it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 08:10:48 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Stuart

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2024, 02:05:36 PM »
Interesting take from someone on the outside.
Some errors in his report.

CZ has moved much of the operation to CT.
P10 and Scorpion manufacturing is moved.
Receiving and shipping moved to CT.

Colt management integrated into the USA operation.

TS2 is 9mm and 40
New s2 orange or gun is supposed to come over

S1 carbine in 22LR released and available in stores as of Monday of shot show.

Didn’t follow what was new in shotgun or rifle.



« Last Edit: January 28, 2024, 02:10:00 PM by Stuart »

Offline lebomb

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2024, 03:34:39 PM »
Nice jab and left hook.  :D

No worries, it was just a mistake.  I know CZ bought Colt. But as I said it looks like CZ product has been put on the back burner for now IMHO.

:)

Shame there is no "Like" button - I'd have used it.

I'm a huge CZ fan.  I want to hear some great news concerning pistols moving forward!!  Hoping it will come soon.  You have a great rest of the weekend.   

« Last Edit: January 29, 2024, 08:10:32 AM by Wobbly »
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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2024, 03:44:05 PM »
I'm a huge CZ fan.  I want to hear some great news concerning pistols moving forward!!  Hoping it will come soon.  You have a great rest of the weekend.   

I have a 455 Varmint, and will be picking up a Sharp Tail Coach in 20 gauge this week, but that's it.  My collection is very varied in terms of manufacturers. :)

Hope your weather is better than our rain....

Offline lebomb

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2024, 04:37:20 PM »
Quote from: lebomb    8)8)8)link 8)=topic=124394.msg953114#msg953114 date=1706474079
I'm a huge CZ fan.  I want to hear some great news concerning pistols moving forward!!  Hoping it will come soon.  You have a great rest of the weekend.   

I have a 455 Varmint, and will be picking up a Sharp Tail Coach in 20 gauge this week, but that's it.  My collection is very varied in terms of manufacturers. :)

Hope your weather is better than our rain....

Clear, not a cloud in the sky and 68 deg.  8)
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CZ P10M (wife’s)

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SailDesign

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Re: The Firearmguy on YouTube paints a bleak picture........
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2024, 04:47:40 PM »

Clear, not a cloud in the sky and 68 deg.  8)


Oh, hush!!