Author Topic: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)  (Read 1762 times)

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Offline Joe L

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Shot a few rounds on Wednesday and then returned on Thursday to see if I could remember how to shoot video and a pistol at the same time.  I did fine with the pistol, but struggled with the video gear--out of practice.  No surprise there.

So, I managed to miss focus on the shooter camera and not hit record on the shooter voice recorder.  The target camera was fine so I went ahead and made the following very short video of target 3. 

https://youtu.be/3FYTV16cXyc

Considering I was getting a little eye strain after the first two 20 round targets, this is a good target.  I did change the zero after the first two targets by 2 clicks but that is about all I changed.  I have addressed the cable and battery and camera settings issues I had on Thursday, and hope to return to the range again on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week to shoot maybe a 1911 or 97B"E".  I hope I can remember how to run the camera gear next time out.  I did the equivalent of dry fire with the camera gear on Friday while troubleshooting my operator errors and maybe that will help.   

This is fun.  This is not easy. 

Joe L
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2024, 07:12:16 PM »
Joe, how does that red dot look at 100 yds?

The other day, at 10 meters, that dot was bouncing all over the place on me.  Can't imagine what my dot would be doing/looking like at 100 yds.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Joe L

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Re: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2024, 07:40:56 AM »
It looks bad, really bad!!!

I used to use the B-8C target with the red dots, which is black out to the 9 ring, but switched to the B-6C target to get a larger bullseye out to the 8 ring.  The Burris dot is not quite as crisp as the Holosun, so I use the larger bull target with the guns that have the Burris sight.  I can use the smaller bullseye target with the Holosun, but I am not sure that is optimum either. 

The toughest thing to do in bullseye or long range pistol shooting is to "accept the wobble".  I struggle with that still even after 10 years experience.  The shooter cannot hold the gun perfectly steady, especially single hand standing at 25 and 50 yards like in bullseye matches.  But I found that I can't hold the gun perfectly steady from a rest when shooting at 100 and 200 yards either. 

What happens to beginners including myself is that the shooter tries to time the shot and tries to release the shot when the dot is "just perfectly" centered while it is wobbling.  The result is a jerked trigger and the shot hitting way outside the bullseye.  So, what experience will teach the shooter is that it is better to learn to hold the gun as steady as possible, but just concentrate on as perfect a trigger pull as possible and let the dot wobble around, hopefully inside the bullseye (at 25 and 50 yards).  If the shooter can do that, the hits will be better on average than they will be if the shooter has erratic forced trigger pulls.  The best tool to improve one's trigger pull is a MantisX device and dry fire in my opinion.  The best way to learn to hold the gun steady is dry fire from a shooting stance while using a tiny aim point on a wall.  I think.   

Back to 100 and 200 yards.  Even from a wrist or palm rest, the dot moves.  I attribute this to heartbeat and muscle micro twitches while gripping the gun.  With the black 8 ring target, one can see if the dot is centered because the dot is smaller than the black bullseye, but just barely.  This can be bad at times, like when I haven't shot in a while, because the tendency to try to center the dot perfectly returns.  I think it might even be better to have a larger aim point even at 100 yards, to make it mentally easier to accept the wobble and to avoid forcing the shot or just giving up on a shot and pulling the trigger when one knows the gun isn't aimed right.  Keep in mind that there is also some eye strain, at least in my case, associated with trying to center a 4-5" dot on an 8" black circle at 100 yards with one eye.   Perhaps even a square black box 12" wide and 2" thick would be a better aim point at 100 yards.  I've had good results from a large square box aim point at 200 yards, for example. 

Note that a red dot sight rated at 3moa dot size is not necessarily 3" at 100 yards.  These dots are not "crisp" and don't need to be for their intended purpose, which is NOT 100 and 200 yard targets.  The 3 moa Burris dot sight looks to be 4" plus at 100 yards and the 2 moa Holosun dot looks more like 3" plus at 100 yards.  That needs to be considered when choosing the aim point/target size.   The worst size aim point is one that is equal to or slightly smaller than the dot sized, such that the dot completely covers the aim point and then one doesn't know where the gun is aimed.  Bigger is better, as in 2-3 times the dot diameter, or a little larger than I'm using now.  I need to experiment some more with a larger target after I get back to more consistency over the next few weeks.  It will be easier to accept some wobble if the dot stays in a larger target area is my thinking. 

Thanks for the question.

Joe L
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2024, 07:22:52 AM »
I've been working, a little, and only at the range, with my wife and her Equalizer with a Holosun on it.  The bouncing dot is beating her up mentally (the trigger doesn't help either, but it's wearing in better). 

It's a journey.  I don't believe a lot of us understand it's never "perfect."  It can be better.  The techniques for making it better aren't always as well known as they could be.

You mentioned the Mantis.  I agree.  As I was reading your post I realized I might get more benefit from my Mantis if I used it differently.  I wonder if my trigger pull measurements would be different if I start aiming at a target.  Not a target up close on the wall, but one farther out (need to try it out back of the house today to see.  Try to mimic a range trip and see if aiming at a target and trying to shoot good groups (dry firing of course) off hand and see if my numbers go down.  Yeah, I'm a trigger jerker, I've been told.

It might not be showing up unless conditions are similar to shooting at a range.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Joe L

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Re: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2024, 07:37:27 AM »
Try an index card with a 1/4" black dot in the center and see if the sight dot is inside the target dot or not for whatever distance you have from the target to the gun and increase the target dot size until it is similar to your normal target size relative to the sight dot size.  There really is no need to be too concerned about the distance from the gun as long as it is say 8 feet or more.  I've used a long dining room table as a shooting bench and a dot on a card on the opposite wall.  Believe me, you will see the movement.  Neither my wife or my dog are amused, however.

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F, P-10S, MTR

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: A few 10 ring hits with the P-09 at 100 yards on Thursday (video)
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2024, 05:20:45 PM »
Don't have a dog in the house but the laser on the old Shield drives that big tomcat wild.  He will spend days sitting in the living room searching for that laser on the wall, ceiling, carpet, etc. after I've had the Shield out.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?