7.62x39

[briang2ad]

Europe is in a mess now.  The West is collapsing of its own wokeness and really does NOT offer a good alternative to Russia in some sense.  Poland is a bit different as it has retained a cultural strength somewhat independent of West, and is strong enough to stand against Russia. 

Russia does NOT have the strength to invade further west, much less even occupy Western Ukraine.

The US is active and has been active in anti-Russian operations throughout.

The Fins have kept x39 to good use over time, and x39 will continue on. 

I am just disappointed that the Bren 2 especially the x39 seems to have 'bombed' because of CZ mismanagement. 

[Bret]

There are lots of good points here.  I think that the ultimate market price of brass cased 7.62x39 will settle about halfway between 5.56x45 and 308Win.

I shot my 11" 7.62x39 Bren 2Ms this past weekend.  I really like the ergonomics.  The ejection is weak, though at least it's working now.  I definitely agree that the XCR in 7.62x39 is a superior option.

[briang2ad]

I think IF things go right, and transportation costs go down, we can see x39 for less than $500 a case shipped and taxed regularly. 

If sanctions go away it will get lower than 5.56.

OF COURSE this should be a thread under the Bren, but here are my misgivings about the XCR:

- it is a minimum of $4-500 more OTB
- It is NOT a military adopted firearm unless there is some small SF use.
- It uses Duramags - specifically.  I would want to BET that once your Bren is running right, it and the CZ polymer mags will run better AND feed softpoints better than the XCR. 

While I can see paying MORE for the XCR, I would want to pay much less and use Duramags.  IT SEEMS that they are now GTG, but when for example I saw that the SIG Spear cannot feed softpoints, I just have to balk.

So... I am moved NOT to go over $2K for what is a boutique gun albeit very good.  OR... suck up the weight of a Galil.

Or just enjoy my combloc AKs.

[MeatAxe]

I think IF things go right, and transportation costs go down, we can see x39 for less than $500 a case shipped and taxed regularly. 

If sanctions go away it will get lower than 5.56.

OF COURSE this should be a thread under the Bren, but here are my misgivings about the XCR:

- it is a minimum of $4-500 more OTB
- It is NOT a military adopted firearm unless there is some small SF use.
- It uses Duramags - specifically.  I would want to BET that once your Bren is running right, it and the CZ polymer mags will run better AND feed softpoints better than the XCR. 

While I can see paying MORE for the XCR, I would want to pay much less and use Duramags.  IT SEEMS that they are now GTG, but when for example I saw that the SIG Spear cannot feed softpoints, I just have to balk.

So... I am moved NOT to go over $2K for what is a boutique gun albeit very good.  OR... suck up the weight of a Galil.

Or just enjoy my combloc AKs.

Sounds like you’ve made up your mind to get a Bren 2Ms in 7.62x39 — IMO a superior round to 5.56 in lethality and barrier penetration. They’re light and handy and more ergonomic than AKs once you’ve fixed a couple of niggles. If you haven’t used them already, HB Industries, Haga Defense, KNS and some others will be your friends for parts and upgrades. Hopefully, the parts availability from CZ-USA will improve.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

FWIW, I haven’t had any issues with x39 Duramags in either the Bren 2Ms or the XCR.

[Wobbly]

If sanctions go away it will get lower than 5.56.

And that's just it. Sanctions on Russia can go away in theory, but because Russians have a 12th Century mindset and always think in terms of "empire", their actions will always (at least within our lifetimes) always include aggression toward surrounding states. And all those states are now (or soon will be) members of NATO.

If Russia simply adopted the Democratic model of Finland and shared the money earned from their vast natural resource exports, then all the people of Russia could quickly (within years) have a lifestyle on-parr, or above the USA. And they could branch out and ship that discounted 7.62x39 to all their fan club members. Wouldn't that be nice. But 2 things stand in the way of that dream world....

1. The UN is going to see to it that the first $500 Billion of any Russian export earnings go to rebuild Ukraine to its pre-invasion luster, complete with millions in medical care for all the Ukrainian veterans.

2. Russians in general have a grandiose view of themselves, and so they always fall for these Mafia types that tell them "if they'll only elect them as supreme leader"... and here we go again.

7.62x39 is all over the world only because it was being exported to places all over the world. That is going to come to a stretching halt very soon.

"Repent, the end of 7.62x39 is nigh !"

[MeatAxe]

If sanctions go away it will get lower than 5.56.

And that's just it. Sanctions on Russia can go away in theory, but because Russians have a 12th Century mindset and always think in terms of "empire", their actions will always (at least within our lifetimes) always include aggression toward surrounding states. And all those states are now (or soon will be) members of NATO.

If Russia simply adopted the Democratic model of Finland and shared the money earned from their vast natural resource exports, then all the people of Russia could quickly (within years) have a lifestyle on-parr, or above the USA. And they could branch out and ship that discounted 7.62x39 to all their fan club members. Wouldn't that be nice. But 2 things stand in the way of that dream world....

1. The UN is going to see to it that the first $500 Billion of any Russian export earnings go to rebuild Ukraine to its pre-invasion luster, complete with millions in medical care for all the Ukrainian veterans.

2. Russians in general have a grandiose view of themselves, and so they always fall for these Mafia types that tell them "if they'll only elect them as supreme leader"... and here we go again.

7.62x39 is all over the world only because it was being exported to places all over the world. That is going to come to a stretching halt very soon.

"Repent, the end of 7.62x39 is nigh !"

I’ve asked Russians I know here in the US (all Putin supporters, enjoying the fruits of free enterprise, the Constitution, Liberty, etc.) this question: why Putin? The answer is always the same: “because Russia has always needed a ‘Strong Man’.”

So, evidently, Russians prefer living in a totalitarian police state, where you can be picked up by the secret police at any time and be thrown into a gulag or killed (but with free health care!) to a true democratic republic, with liberty, free enterprise, the Constitution, the 2A, etc. — even after they emigrate to the West to escape the Russian police state.

Apparently, it’s a “Mother Russia thang” that nobody else would understand.

[jwc007]

"Repent, the end of 7.62x39 is nigh !"

For the time being, I shall remain unrepentant and have plenty of 7.62x39mm on hand.

However, that said, I also have plenty of 5.56mm NATO on hand in M193 and M855 loadings, along with various hunting loads.

Thus, my bets are hedged!   

I do wish the 6.5mm Grendel would be adopted by someone other than Serbia and become more popular.

[MeatAxe]

"Repent, the end of 7.62x39 is nigh !"

For the time being, I shall remain unrepentant and have plenty of 7.62x39mm on hand.

However, that said, I also have plenty of 5.56mm NATO on hand in M193 and M855 loadings, along with various hunting loads.

Thus, my bets are hedged!   

I do wish the 6.5mm Grendel would be adopted by someone other than Serbia and become more popular.

Well, the good news about 6.5 Grendel (if you can call it that) is that AAC & Hornady
SST & OTM / ELD ammo now costs about the same as the large stockpiles of Russian Wolf FMJs remaining in the pipeline (@ 75 CPR) — hooray!!!

PPU FMJ is going for @ 60 CPR so maybe Serbia can be convinced to crank 6.5 G out cheaper if Zastava would produce a 6.5 G AK for the US market, say something akin to the Serbian Army 6.5 DNR AK.

[briang2ad]

No repentance here. 

x39 stacked very deep.

"Russians are the existential enemy" is OVA.  [As Trump negotiates with Putin last night with reporters...]  Maybe we see a comeback to Wolf in a year or two.  If not, the world still makes it and NEEDS it. 

Keep in mind that until the war ends ALL ammo produced in Ukraine will go to that effort.  AFTER the war, it will be out after commercial markets.  Much has been made of it producing 5.56 and 5.45, but if HK is producing rifles in 7.62X39, it is likely still being produced by Ukraine.  This would come to the US at the end of the war.  How will it impact?  Don't know, but it won't hurt.

[MeatAxe]

No repentance here. 

x39 stacked very deep.

"Russians are the existential enemy" is OVA.  [As Trump negotiates with Putin last night with reporters...]  Maybe we see a comeback to Wolf in a year or two.  If not, the world still makes it and NEEDS it. 

Keep in mind that until the war ends ALL ammo produced in Ukraine will go to that effort.  AFTER the war, it will be out after commercial markets.  Much has been made of it producing 5.56 and 5.45, but if HK is producing rifles in 7.62X39, it is likely still being produced by Ukraine.  This would come to the US at the end of the war.  How will it impact?  Don't know, but it won't hurt.

India is another country that recently adopted and is producing the AK and 7.62x39 ammunition for their military, so they are an, as of yet, untapped resource for x39 import ammo.