Author Topic: Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's  (Read 2582 times)

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« on: January 08, 2002, 06:05:49 PM »
The other day I emailed CZ USA and asked if it was OK to shoot lead and alloy 77 and 78 grain bullets measuring .311 or .312 in the CZ 83 32 acp I own.  I reload and would like to switch from 71 grain fmj's to improve the accuracy for target shooting.

The response I received was to "use my own judgement."

I thought the support department must have misunderstood my question, so I restated it in my response.

Again, I was instructed to "use my own judgement."

I own several handguns from several top of the line companies (Wilson, Les Baer, Ed Brown, S&W, Beretta, etc.).  CZ just went from near the top of my list to the very bottom.  In fact, they're no longer on my list.  That was the dumbest response and crappiest service I've ever received from a gun manufacturer or custom builder.

Until this event, I was quite happy about CZ products and have stated so both on this group and others.  But, CZ just lost any future business from me.  

Dennis D. Carter

Offline mapdude

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2002, 06:55:51 PM »
Dennis it's not CZ's fault that everybody is sue happy.  Most gunmakers will not recommend any loading data because they want you to shoot factory for liability concerns.  I think you should take their response as "we can't tell you what to load because if it doesn't work we might get sued."  Now if you asked what typical bore and groove dimensions were for your pistol and they said .308, .312 etc you might have gotten some valuable information.  Asking them for load information is asking them to put their liability on the line.   mapdude.

Will-Beararms

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2002, 10:31:56 PM »
I suggest you start making your own guns and then you can specify what ammo to use. With all due respect, no gun manufacturer's representative with any degree of sanity is going to suggest that you use reloads in a weapon made by the company they represent.


Offline Dennis Carter

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2002, 06:48:56 AM »
CZ Rep,
I own and shoot a number of high quality handguns.  They include Wilsons, Les Baers, Ed Browns, Berettas, and S & W's.  Every one of those manufacturers will and does provide bullet information when asked.

CZ USA's idiotic response to my question is not the fault of the legal community and while you may not know or care anything about what you shoot, I do.

You can take your "squirrelly" comment shove it.

If you really are a CZ Rep, and that isn't just a cute little title you've given yourself, tell your boss you've lost any future business me.  I don't intend to spend my money or waste my time for inferior products or service.  And I intend to share that information with others.

Dennis D. Carter (a real name)

Walt-Sherrill

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2002, 07:32:34 AM »
I've never considered EDUCATING shooters about proper hand-loading practices to be a gun company "service" responsibility.  

In fact, most of the gun makers I've done business recommend ONLY factory ammo and using handload will void their warranty.  

Do you think GM answers questions about how to reprogram their car computers for better performance?  

I guess your definition of quality and mine will have to live separate but equal existences... But mine won't be quite so narrowly focused as yours.

I still to durability, accuracy, and reliability...  

(And unlike you, I've had excellent SERVICE from CZ, including free parts when I screwed something up, and good advice when looking to make modifications.)






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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2002, 07:44:40 AM »
The problem here is not the gun or the gun company, the problem is Dennis Carter. You sir, have a bad attitude. Not everyone can be pleased.

To answer your original question, the 78 grn bullets should be fine. In my own testing with the 83 I have found that with the lighter bullets, any less than 6.5 grns of Unique or 5.0 grns of Bullseye will cause a squib. This is why CZ recommends that the shooter "use his own judgement". The CZ83 was not designed to shoot unjacketed bullets and it's blowback operation requires a stout round in order to function properly. I hope that sufficiently answers your question and you can go back to shooting your CZ.

-Ron "The bull" Mierda
 CZ USA

Offline JUNGLE MAN MOD

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Lousy Service Just Ended My Support for CZ's
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2002, 08:45:26 AM »
Dennis, I am sorry you are not satisified with your service but any handloader is taking the risk of failure. Why should CZ suggest to you something is ok and then have it fail. Then you would want to blame them for the failure. That said this topic is locked.