No complaining allowed

[Unregistered(d)]

Seems to me that when someone would like to air a negative opinion around here it get closed down awful fast.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Not really.  There are a lot of folks who have complaints.  It just when the complaints are fundamentally UNREASONABLE that things get shut down.

I have a CZ-40B.  I don't particularly like that CZ-40B and have said so several times on this forum.  I don't like the trigger, even though it has been gunsmithed.  Others have chimed in with the same response.   Nobody tried to shut me down.

I've also, frequently, said that you ought not get too enamored of "factory" mags, as I've had more factory mags fail than "cheap" Magnum Research or Pro-Mags...   Nobody tried to shut me down.

The fellow in the other message chain came out of left field with what most would consider an unreasonable complaint about an aspect of "service" that generally isn't considered service.  It was shut down.  That was the moderator's call.

[Unregistered(d)]

Walt,

I've read plenty of your post and respect your opinons,  but don't you think maybe a statement of "you could possibly slug your barrel or have it done by a gunsmith and then choose the diameter of cast bullet you can use"
would have been more helpful than his reply.  I have mixed feelings about the manner in which Mike has also answered some of my questions.  I'm not doubting his ability because he has done a trigger job on a 75 SA for me and it was outstanding.

[ATeaM]

Well, let's see if this gets locked.


CZ's are overrated !

Yep, you heard me right ! I think too many want to jump on the CZ bandwagon and sing it's praises simply because others do. It reinforces a positive image that makes them feel they made an especially good purchase, when, in reality there are many fine handguns at the same price.

Ruger is cheaper ! Not as accurate, but I've never had one fail me. My CZ fails all the time. I think the extractor, slide stop, and magazines are poorly designed. I think the magazine break is a bad idea and the "b" series trigger has too many small, breakable parts. Also, the metal used in the barrel is SUPER soft. My barrels exterior is all chewed up and gouged after only a few thousand rounds, the rifling is worn flat.

Despite all this, the thing is bleep accurate, especially considering what I paid.

There ! You happy ?!!

[Walt-Sherrill]

The guy who responded as CZREP was a bit intemperate.  Unusual for someone who has to make his living SELLING stuff.

But honestly, he said what I was thinking when I read the original message.  I just didn't put my thoughts to words.

And, yeah -- a response like you suggested might have been more useful -- but what Mike said may have been appropriate.  

Mike has never been anything but helpful when I've called with a question.  Amazingly helpful.

(When I had a problem with my 85 combat -- it wasn't cycling properly in DA mode... probably due to wear afer an extra stringent trigger job ... Mike and I (guided by my gunsmith) talked through the problem and he sent new parts, no charge, to see if that would fix the problem.  It did.  That's service: advice AND parts, free.)  I've had similar responses from Taurus, once, and Rossi -- but it took a LOT LONGER to get hold of someone who would listen.   With SIG and S&W I could never get in touch with a real person...

[cos]

The CZ techs are great and easy to get a hold of. Definitely a plus when considering a purchase. I also have to say that I've had good dealings with Ruger's Tech dep't, though not as easy to get a hold of.

[mapdude]

You know you have to take every comment with a grain of salt unless it is backed by scientific testing.  Each personal account is anecdotal at best but useful as a whole for seeing how happy most CZ shooters are.  I take seriously the ideas of the frame cracking by the safety but then the guy was shooting IPSC and possibly hot reloads and possibly without proper spring etc etc.    Just because someone else has something break doesn't mean you will in "normal" service.  Are the slide stops defective?  Maybe but nobody has proven they break more often than slide stops from Ruger, Colt etc just that one broke.  Maybe the CZ extractors crud up faster than "normal" but I always clean my weapons and if you have to use several hundred pistol rounds in combat without a break you are dead anyway.  If you want a gun you can shoot and never clean, the CZ 75 is not that gun.  If you want a superior accuracy high capacity, comfortable and reliable 9mm, the CZ fits that bill very nicely.  I'd sure like to see a picture of CZ's poor shot out barrel that's all chewed up.  Then I'd like to ask if the thing has had any corrosive ammo fired in it without cleaning?  Salt exposure?  How about steel jacketed ammo?  Could the chewing be pitting from poor maintenance?  I'm not trying to slam anyone but if you are going to cry about criticism you better be able to back up your claims with evidence to support your position. mapdude

[Unregistered(d)]

I don't work for CZ, I was just pulling the guys chain. Someone that stupid and rude doesn't deserve an honest answer. And what was with comparing CZ to Les Baer and expecting the same service ? I nearly peed myself laughing at that one. The guy was obviously high strung and needed to take a deep breath.

[NiteXtractor]

My thought is similar to Max and ATeaM. Freedom to speak our mind usually leads to better things for all of us. Personally I think the guy was off his rocker, but let him speak his mind. All of us here are mature enough to tell whether a comment is unreasonable or not. I would not like to see much censoring of any thing, unless the comment is obscene and illegal I think we should let the comments be known.

[ATeaM]

Mapdude,

My CZ is cleaner than a surgeons scalpel. But tell me this, have you fully stripped the slide to properly clean the extractor ? Short of sending it back to the factory, I have yet to find anyone who can.

If anyone has a copy of the armorer's manual, I would appreciate it if someone would scan the procedure and put it up here at the site. All descriptions I have heard so far are unthorough and could possibly lead to destruction of the slide. That or the chinsy parts that make up the trigger block.

As for the chewed up barrel, if I had a digital camera I would be more than happy to show what I'm talking about. So far accuracy seems unaffected so I'm not inclined to replace it. However, the deep gouges, pitting, and uneven wear are signs of soft metal which doesn't make me feel too confident.  

[ut83]

To any and all who read this and especially those who complain.......,  Few have bitched as much as me!
I have had problems with my Compact.  Problems CZUSA and Mike had never heard of...I have voiced my complaints about my problem on the Forum and actually got help and a possible resolution for my guns problem.  
I am a Moderator and bet your *ss, I for one wont kill any post or thread unless I and a whole lot of others find it unreasonable or completely full of crap.  Some of those I may
keep just for the Entertainment value.

WE WELCOME EVERY OPINION, PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If its screamingly and blatantly apparant someone is just raising H*LL for no reason or just to get a rise out of us, YOU
BET YOUR *SS, I am going to consider killing the thread.  I guarrantee you the same would happen on any other forum on the net!  

You can think, say and write what ever you want to and post it here.  ANYTIME!  

I gotta say this, on other forums I frequent...yes other forums.  I run into the "SIGS SUCK or KIMBERS ARE CRAP!
types" all too often.  These "KEYBOARD SHOOTERS" are the
greatest,  they take their great wealth of experience and
tie it togethor with there vast and deep writing career and
the end result is " CZ's are CRAP"!  IMO, rarely do these
types of posters have any or enough experience to back up
what they post and when you call them on it..either they
just continue in the same B*LLSH*T direction or they dont
reply.  Anyone who will base a completely negative opinion on a Gun maker over one problem with a certain gun or model, has the right to feel this way and post whatever he wants.
Everytime this happens...watch for the process happening.
They get called on it, as their arrogance and ignorance gets
them shot down everytime.  EVERYTIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

I welcome any and all response to this post.  Why?  Because
I believe in what I write, dont blow smoke and welcome anyone to "call" me on it!

Shoot well

By the way...I know of a couple of people take there extractors out to clean them.  Ask your question where it
will get seen and you should get the answer you seek.
Also, If your barrel is that bad...CZUSA will take care of it.  Sh*t happens to guns.  IMO, I Dont think millions of people from all over the world would consider the CZ as good a gun
as they do, if your problem was common, I believe you would have to agree with this point.
As late as the USA is picking up on them..they are being put on the list of "top ten guns of the century".... by respected and unbiased writers and shooters all over the country.

You may think they are overrated....you can say what you want...I think they are underrated.  You can say what you want to me.  Welcome to the forum and its diversity.

Respectfully, Eric/ut83
Shoot well

[ATeaM]

I never said CZ's were crap.

I said they were overated due to internet hype. It starts with "Hey this is a good gun for the money !" and ends with, "Hey, my CZ shoots two inch groups at 100 yards and bests my friends $$$$ custom gun everytime !!".

Newbies get caught up in a frenzy and suggest all sorts of ridiculous bullbleep, and I agree with you, rarely do they have enough experience to know what the hell their talking about.

I've learned about my guns faults and plusses from first hand experience, not based on some guys opinion on the internet. Nor do I care about some bullbleep writer's opinion for that matter. The range I go to has been renting out CZ's since before the military contract surplus made them affordable and popular. Everything I've learned about the gun has been dealing with these guys, and seeing what I can expect into the future. The CZ is not as perfect as everyone suggests. Far from it. And I'll be bleeped if some fool assumes it's because the gun wasn't cleaned regularly. Please.

Can you go to any gun store in your area and buy a replacement part for your CZ that day ? Nope. Bet you can for a Glock, Sig, or H&K. But if you own those guns ? You won't need to be replacing parts as fast as on the CZ.

Will the slide stop break ? Yep. The range replaced it 4 times before they gave up on CZ's. I've only had to replace it once.

It's a good gun for the money, but it's not perfect nor is it the best 9mm out there. If it was ? The police and military would be using them. CZ was used in our military trials and did not prove to be as stellar as the internet hype suggests.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Ateam wrote:

"Can you go to any gun store in your area and buy a replacement part for your CZ that day ? Nope. Bet you can for a Glock, Sig, or H&K. But if you own those guns ? You won't need to be replacing parts as fast as on the CZ."

That's not been my experience.  Unless your dealer or gunsmith is a factory service center, you'll find that most gunsmiths send off to the factory or (more likely) Brownells for the parts.  That's why most repairs take a week or two... they're waiting for the parts to come in.

"Will the slide stop break ? Yep. The range replaced it 4 times before they gave up on CZ's. I've only had to replace it once. "

Could be.  I've HEARD of this happening. but haven't seen it in my guns (3 CZs over the past couple of years) which have been shot in excess of 10,000 rounds.  Nor in my friends CZ...
Early on I heard of this slide stop problem and talked to the CZ gunsmith about it.  He said he hadn't seen it, but said if I was concerned, get a heavier recoil spring.  I did, but didn't like it.

"It's a good gun for the money, but it's not perfect nor is it the best 9mm out there. If it was ? The police and military would be using them. CZ was used in our military trials and did not prove to be as stellar as the internet hype suggests."

Sorry, but I think you've completely missed the target on this shot.  

You apparently don't pay much attention to how the military and police procurement process is done.  Its generally more about politics than function.

Glock sells a lot of guns to police departments because they FOCUSED on police departments.  They know that MOST cops aren't gun saavy and tend to do stupid things with guns. Glock knows how to talk the the "politically correct" thinkers who buy for police departments. Glock designed around this.

S&W has sold a lot of guns to police departments, too.  Do you think the typical S&W semi-auto is as good as a Glock or SIG?  SIG sells some to the US Military and european militarys, but nothing like the numbers that Beretta sells.  

(Do you really think the Beretta 92 is a better gun than the SIG 9mms or the Glock 9mms?)  

Nope. Berettas are good guns, but its really politics. Pure and simple.

One reason that the CZ wasn't adopted by the Communist world as a military gun under the Soviet Bloc was politics -- within the Soviet Bloc.  Do you REALLY think the Soviets would acknowledge a superior design from a satellite country?  

And until just a few years ago, most western nations wouldn't or couldn't buy guns from Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic.)  

It isn't always the best gun that gets the contract.  In fact, I'd be willing to say, its SELDOM the best gun that gets the contract.

[ATeaM]

Eric ? If you are going to be refering to me ? You should at least have the balls to do so rather than rely on cryptic innuendo. On this post or on other boards.

You took my original response, which was partly in jest(as most understood), and responded with some sort of rhetorical cry baby fest that has nothing to do with comments I've made on this or other boards. Which is why I missed it in the first place, I didn't have a clue what the hell you were talking about.

You like CZ's ? That's great man, so do I. You think Kahr would make a great race gun ? Super. Maybe next you'll tell me what your SHTF bug out bag contains, or why .223 is better than .308, or or...whatever. Get a grip.

I have to apologize for allowing myself to get dragged into this bullbleep. There's always going to be the brand whore who see's/speaks/hears no evil of their gun, and jumps on anyone who's had a bad experience. Generally novices with lot's to learn. Save your breath.

Walt, I own a few 9mm's. I probably shoot my CZ the most and it's without a doubt the most accurate for the money. I've had parts break on it, it's had a lot of jams, and it doesn't have the best fit or finish. That doesn't mean it's a bad gun, just a few things I would change which are mostly solved in the COMBAT model. I agree, politics plays a lot in firearms selection, but lay out a CZ next to a Beretta and a Sig and it clear to me why both those guns cost $100 to $200 more, their fit, finish, and build quality is superior. In my hands they've both proven to be much more reliable with springs and parts that last a lot longer.

[ut83]

AteaM,
I have the balls to say "I am wrong!"  IMO, that takes more balls, than the cheap and wrongly placed shots I took at you earlier.
I will tell you, if I may?  I have been shooting and such my whole life.  I have a fairly diverse background regarding guns
of all types.  I have never been involved in competition shooting or any organized events.  
The forum thing is not really new to me...yet at times, even with my background and all, when I read posts on this forum and others...my feelings are  " I feel like I have been on an Island for the past 35 years".  In other words..."what have I been missing?"

Between the "brand whores" and the "keyboard shooters" I run into here and there and the occasional negative comment about our "forum" on the others....I get worked up and start to take offense to it.  

I can say honestly, I do a reasonable and accurate job if I comment to anyone...regardless of what the topic is relating too.  I know enough to not comment at all, if I dont have personal experience regarding a specific topic.  But.......

At times my judgement slips slightly (like you didnt realize that?) and my comments lack proper direction and seem to
go off into left field about 20 or so miles. Mostly from the completely unbelievable and negative comments I read ... This was the case when I went off on you.  I will say "I am wrong and sorry for my comments."  

I hope this makes sense to you...its not an excuse..just an explanation.  I wont make excuses for my already stupid behavior.  This would bury myself in an already big hole.

Take it for what its worth and as always, shoot well

Respectfully, Eric