Author Topic: Counter tactics against the sniper(s)  (Read 3920 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cztops

  • Guest
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« on: October 10, 2002, 08:49:31 PM »
I realize there is another thread on the sniper(s) in GF, but I am interested in the tactics or changes in SOP that an individual like yourself would take to be a harder target.

Between doing nothing different and trusting God or fate for your safety to staying indoors and having supplies delivered, what are some tactics or changes in your standard operating procedures that you would consider if you were concerned with such a threat?

Walt-Sherrill

  • Guest
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2002, 03:37:58 AM »
I've got a couple of friends who are ex-SF snipers.  (One is a nearby neighbor.)

If the loony in question is competent -- and that remains to be seen (but, he is certainly accurate) -- there's really not much that can be done to counter his tactics.  Truly.

A good sniper is one of the most awesome armed forces in the world.  Excellent shots and masters of concealment.  

If he's just an accurate loony, he'll eventually slip up, be seen, leave a trail, etc., and they'll get him the way they do all other serial killers -- generally a lot later.

Short of Armored Personnel Carriers, I don't think there's a lot you can do, and APCs only help until you get ready to go inside.   I'm glad I don't live in the DC area.

Offline ut83

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1756
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2002, 05:04:14 AM »
Snipers are truely truely scary!  Just like Walt said, they are absolutely dangerous...and hard to catch.  
I scanned thru a book my dad has, written by the "worlds most accurate sniper"...I dont remember his name but he has the longest recorded and confirmed "one shot kill" for a sniper.  He was a military sniper for US and he tells how he learned what he did and his experiences.  VERY SCARY!  
The distance for the record...was 2500 meters.  Thats over a mile and 1/2 with a rifle....Do you think he was seen by the victim?  Not a snowballs chance in ..........Shoot well

cz40va

  • Guest
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2002, 05:19:20 AM »
Eric, I think the sniper you have in mind is Carlos Hathcock. The book is Marine Sniper. Hathcock had over 90 confirmed kills during 2 tours in Vietnam. His 1st tour he used a Model 70 Winchester in .30-06 with a 10 Unertal scope and on his 2nd tour he used a Remington 700 in .308 Win with a 3-9 Redfield Scope. The shot you are referring to was made with a .50 Browning Machine Gun, previously sighted in, equipped with a specially designed scope mount for the Browning.
This is one of my favorite books of all times.

Offline CZNE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2002, 07:49:15 AM »
Thankfully the sniper in the DC area is using a 223

from a story by:

Michael Smith and Chris Wattie
National Post

Canadian snipers were reportedly outstanding in the fighting around the mountainous al-Qaeda bastion east of Gardez, code-named Operation Anaconda.

The battle pitted the two Canadian sniper teams against an enemy that showered the assaulting coalition troops with mortars and machine-gun fire as soon as they jumped from their helicopters.

One member of the team, a corporal from Newfoundland, said on his first night in combat he and his partner got an al-Qaeda machine gun in their sights as it was hailing bullets down on U.S. troops below.

Crawling up into a good position, they set up their .50-calibre rifle -- the MacMillan Tac-50, a weapon the corporal compares to having superhuman power in your hands. "Firing it feels like someone slashing you on the back of your hockey helmet with a hockey stick."

When he hit his first target, an enemy gunman at a distance of 1,700 metres, he said all that ran through his mind was locating his next target.

"All I thought of was Sept. 11th and all those people who didn't have a chance and the American reporter who was taken hostage, murdered and his wife getting the videotape of the execution; that is my justification."

By daylight, after coming under enemy machine-gun fire, he managed to ease his rifle barrel between two rocks and quickly located an enemy sniper hiding behind a small piece of corrugated steel between two trees. He guessed the distance at 1,700 metres and fired one shot through the metal, killing the man instantly.

He said afterward he remembered thinking: "That's one less bullet that's gonna be coming at us, one less person we have to think about."

During the next four days of fighting, the Newfoundland corporal set what is believed to be a record for a long-distance shot under combat conditions, hitting an enemy gunman at a distance of 2,430 metres.

The days of crawling, shooting and long hours waiting in cover left the Canadian snipers exhausted. "You don't realize what you've done to your body and how tired you are till it's all done. I think we slept 14 or 15 hours when we got back," the master corporal said.

Three of them, along with U.S. special forces soldiers, also rescued a company of the U.S. 101st Airborne Division that was pinned down by enemy fire on the first day of Operation Anaconda.

They also participated in Operation Harpoon, with Canadian troops on "the whale," a mountain overlooking the Shah-e-Kot valley where al-Qaeda fighters were putting up stiff resistance.

Operation Harpoon, carried out in conjunction with Operation Anaconda, consisted of 500 Canadian and 100 U.S. troops under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel Pat Stogran, who leads Canadian Forces in Afghanistan in the biggest ground offensive since the Korean War.

Lieutenant Justin Overbaugh, of the American scout platoon to which the Canadian snipers were attached, said it was a pleasure to work with the Canadian troops.

"Their professionalism was amazing," Lieut. Overbaugh said. "The Canadians were a very large asset to the mission. I would have loved to have 12 Canadian sniper teams out there. I'd have no problems fighting alongside of them again."

He said the Canadian snipers had equipment far superior to theirs. Their rifles had longer range than the U.S. weapons and better high-tech sights. Lieut. Overbaugh said if another mission comes up, he will request the Canadian sniper teams be sent with his unit.

Senior military officials in Ottawa made a point of praising their work at the time. "The sniper teams suppressed enemy mortars and heavy machine-gun positions with deadly accuracy," Vice-Admiral Greg Maddison said after Operation Harpoon ended. "Their skills are credited with likely having saved many allied lives."
 

 

Chuck-Edwards

  • Guest
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2002, 08:50:06 AM »
Well, I guess we have to be more careful with the Newfy jokes, eh?  8-)

Regards,

Chuck

cztops

  • Guest
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2002, 11:18:55 AM »
A good sniper is very difficult to defense against. Let's look at his strengths and modes operandi:

What are some advantages a sniper has?
- concealment or hard cover
- distance
- element of surprise

Concerning the DC sniper, what are the common environmental elements or mode of operation that he has shot from? I have read or watched the news reports very little, so I don't know if these are correct.
- shoots from wooded areas
- less densely populated areas
- few people walking/riding/driving by
- ability to shoot and bug out without being seen

Going about everyday life, one does not have the time to glass an area before exposing oneself. Thus, trying to spot the sniper first is not workable. The element of suprise can be countered by taking conscious steps to make oneself a more difficult target. Just like perps pick on the easiest victims, if one takes some modest actions, he may deflect the sniper's choice of victim to someone other than you.

I am not a hunter and have only had sporatic long range time with my .223. I have a hard enough time hitting a stationary target. Add continuous non patterned movement and the shot becomes much more difficult. Whether this is true for this sniper, I don't know. (Were his victims moving or pretty much stationary before being shot?)

So if I was filling my car with gas, I would not stand in one position but be on the move walking, stopping, standing around.

I would also analyze the environment. If there was only one direction a sniper bullet would come from, I would try to put hard cover (car engine) between myself and it. Pretend to be checking your front tire so as not to draw attention from other customers.

I assume the schools will be requiring the students to wait inside before school starts. If not, I wouldn't drop off children until the doors open to let them inside.

Its these kind of tactics which makes oneself a more difficult target that I am interested in. What few changes in your daily life would you make if this was happening in your area?

Offline CZNE

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 101
Counter tactics against the sniper(s)
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2002, 05:38:53 PM »
Shooting is only one aspect of being a sniper, concealment, the ability to ingress and egress from the location, are other parts of the puzzle and this shooter seems very skilled in that part of the equation.  It is amazing how he or she gets into position, makes the shot and gets away.  This has led me at times to believe the shooter is a trained terrorist.  But then the fact that there always seems to be the same vehicle involved would lead one to believe there is almost a desire to be caught, more like a serial killer, although a very skilled serial killer.  Guess we wont find out until they stop the perp.

As for what you can do in the situation, I think luck plays a big part in what happens.  But you have to be aware of your surroundings and of things that dont fit the pattern or dont make sense.  Movement, would be a good idea especially movement that isnt always constant.  In hunting with a rifle, if your target is moving at a constant speed and direction, placing a round where it is supposed to be becomes much less challenging.  However if the target is moving erratically hitting it becomes much more difficult and for many of us impossible.  Lets all just hope there is a break and they nail this bastard soon.