"IDPA Guns & Gear" Article in American Handgun

[grCZ75]

There was a "Top Guns at IDPA" article in the new July/August issue of American Handgunner.  Kind of strange since it not even June yet....

Anyway, the article is a review of the 2002 IDPA Nationals in Lake Cormorant, Missisippi.  The article goes on to say that the most popular guns at the event in the ESP division were M1911 in 9x19, CZ75's and Browning P-35's.  The first page has a guy doing a tac reload from behind a barrel using a CZ75.

The other interesting thing was that they went on to say that the most common ammo used at the event was the Walmart WWB 100 round pack.  I've seen a bunch of posts about how innaccurate the WWB was and thought that this was interesting that people at a national competition shooters would choose WWB over some of the other more "accurate" loads.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Most of the serious "competitive" shooters I know, who shoot at the higher levels in IDPA, handload.  WWB is simply not consistent enough for a serious shooter doing competition.

You have to realize that shooting at the IDPA National Championship is not something that you have to qualify for.  You simply have to have shot in several sanctioned matches, and have the time and the money to go there.  

A lot of pretty-mediocre shooters shoot at the Nationals.  (If you doubt it, check the scores and see how much difference there is between the top and bottom shooters...)

[grCZ75]

It was actually a timely article for me since I am getting my  gear together to shoot my first match in a few weeks.  I am still trying to figure out which ammo to use and thought that if the National competitors could use WWB then there wasn't any reason I couldn't do it also.

[Walt-Sherrill]

You can't go wrong with CCI Blazer or Sellier & Bellot.  (I've heard of and seen a bad lot or two of S&B with hard primers..., but never had the problem myself.)

I try to buy in case lots from Natchez Shooters Supply (www.natchezss.com) and its very inexpensive, shipped.  THere are other equally inexpensive suppliers, so ask around.

I've found, having shot a lot of this stuff, that all of the following 115 gr full metal jacket ammo shoots about the same and very well:

Denel
PMP
MagTech
Sellier & Bellot
CCI Blazer
IMI

I've found it better to avoid WWB, UMC, and any of the cheap American-made stuff.   Some guns love it, some guns won't eject it -- but it is generally sub-average in accuracy.

Ditto ammo by AAA (American Amunition) which is some of the worst, most inconsistent, and potentially dangerous ammo available.

Others like Wolf ammo (Russian); if it works for you, have at it.  I've heard too many horror stories about this stuff causing malfunctions to want to mess with it.  I have personally seen a couple of problems -- requiring a shooter to force an empty case out of the chamber with a wooden dowel.

[JohnK3]

Check out www.outdoor-source.com

I got 1000rds of S&B 115gr FMJ delivered to my door for $125.  That was AFTER paying Georgia Sales Tax.

[CZ-Guy]

Frankly, I have tried the white box stuff.  In 100 rounds I had about 3 or 4 that failed to eject.  I am using Blazers almost exclusively now.  I shot my first IDPA Sunday and had no problems with FTEs.  The gun went bang every time and the bullet when where I told it to go (sometimes I told it to go to the wrong place...but that is another discussion).  

My 9mm 75b seems to want a load that cycles a bit more firmley than what some reloads or the white box stuff gives.  Try the Blazers they consistantly seem to cycle the weapon the way it wants to be cycled.  I bet they will work just fine for you.

[grCZ75]

I have been firing the 100 pack for a while now since 1) its pretty hard to beat the price and 2) my local range doesn't allow blazers.  No FTEs at all.

So I think I'll pick up a couple of boxes of non-wwb ammo.  

So other than a holster, a couple of extra magazines, and a mag pouch, I have also read that some kind of "concealment" vest or long shirt is also needed.  

[Walt-Sherrill]

If you're taking IDPA seriously, a concealment vest isn't needed.  What is needed is what you would NORMALLY wear when carrying concealed.  Anything else is "gaming."

How many folks wear a vest when not at an IDPA match?  Nowadays, a vest is a flag that says, "Hey, look at me, I'm packing!!!"

Most of us, when we're shooting from concealment, just wear the jacket or shirt we'd normally wear.

You can change what you'd normally wear to make drawing from concealment easier, and that's the ethical thing to do.  It also makes good sense.

From my perspective (and my perspective alone), the primary objective of shooting IDPA is to hone your self-defense skills; only secondly is the objective to do well in a match.  When the second objective outweighs the first, you're either very, very good (master class improving already very solid skills) or your fooling yourself about why you're really out there.  

I can understand why others might feel differently, and they shoot the same courses of fire I do -- and also have opinions --  so, I agree with UT83 on this one: to each his own.

[jdkelly]

Mr. Sherrill,

I know you know much more about IDPA and shooting in general then I do, but I differ with you on what IDPA really is.

I think we can take what ever we want from our IDPA experience.  But to me, I think that IDPA is all about gaming in moderation.  If it wasn't its rules would be "bring what you carry" and no score would be kept.  Instead you'd get a performance review.

But in fairness to its COMPETITORS, the IDPA has a set of rules telling you what you can use, what you can carry and how you can use the game pieces.  The goal maybe to improve your skills, but those skills are developed playing a game.

One may play IDPA with only those items he normally carries.  Another might not be allowed to use the items he normally carries.  I know almost all the equipment I play IDPA with, I dont normally carry.  But it still is improving my skills.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

[HungWeiLo]

Personally, I take Walt's approach.  I use my normal carry holster, normal carry gun, and an unbuttoned Eddie Bauer shirt or leather western vest for cover, both of which I routinely wear.  There are a lot of photographer's vests out there, though.  Most of those guys put there gun in a box when they leave.  I put my magazine of hollow points back in and reholster.

I don't see anything wrong with taking it as just a sport, though.  I just use it to see where my skills are weak and then work on improving that skill set.

[Unregistered(d)]

IDPA is a game, with more realistic constants than IPSC, but it is a game, not a tactical shooting school.  While playing the game, you do improve your shooting skills.  The purpose of a game is first to have fun, second, to win if you can.  At some of the matches I've gone to there is always a few people that take it too seriously as a training class, telling anyone who dosen't do what one would do on the street, that there a "gamer", and that would get them killed on the streets.  While these same guys are walking through a the COF three times before the match starts.  IDPA is based on an equal playing field for the competitors, to eliminate the equipment race of IPSC.  So get your your self a comfortable vest, a holster and mag holders and have fun.   My gun also goes back into a holster loaded with gold-dots after a match.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Here's what IDPA says on the subject:

"Defensive Pistol shooting as a sport is quite simply the use of practical equipment including full charge service ammunition to solve simulated "real world" self-defense scenarios.  Shooters competing in Defensive Pistol events are required to use practical handguns and holsters that are truly suitable for self-defense use. No "competition only" equipment is permitted in Defensive Pistol matches since the main goal is to test the skill and ability of the individual, not their equipment or gamesmanship."

The book goes on to say that among its key principles are:

To provide shooters with practical and realistic courses of fire that simulate a potentially life-threatening encounter or that tests skills that would be required to survive a life-threatening encounter.

To offer a practical shooting sport that is responsive to the shooters and sponsors, with unprecedented stability of equipment rules.

To offer a practical shooting sport that allows the competitors to concentrate on the development of their shooting skills and to fellowship with other like-minded shooters.
_________

If the rule book is any indicaition -- and what they teach at the IDPA Safety Officer Course (I've been) -- the focus is on real-world scenarios, practical equipment, and the development of real-world shooting skills.  

I haven't found anything in the rule book or guidelines or written principles that says the real goal of IDPA is to have fun, but there's nothing that says you can't ALSO have fun while you're at it.

(Re:  three walkthroughs -- most of the IDPA clubs I've shot with disallow anything more than a cursory/explanatory walkthrough with the Safety Officer or Match Director, and absolutely disallow sight pictures.  IPSC is different, and that's the standard there -- with routines choreographed before the first shot is fired.  

Sounds like the places where you shoot are a lot more lenient than they are around here.  [NC/SC/VA])

[Unregistered(d)]

This is a subject that can be argued forever, but the simple fact that a score is kept and and the COMPETITERS are ranked makes it a game, like it or not.  

Another key princple:

 * To offer a competition forum for standard factory produced service pistols such as the Beretta 92F, Glock 17, etc. (STOCK SERVICE PISTOL Division), etc..........

 A Competition is a game.  And a game in general is to have fun,  I don't think anyone at a match is there because they have to be.

Like I said before, IDPA will help you improve your shooting skills, but all the life and death stuff at some of the matches, I can stay at work and get that.  IDPA is also a business and a lot of the cover letter and "what is IDPA?"  is to sell a product.  Don't get me wrong I think IDPA is great, just take it for what it is.
 
  Me personally, I play to win, Ina game and on the streets.

[Walt-Sherrill]

If ranking folks and keeping score is the criteria, then life is just a game, too.    

I wasn't really quibbling with your statement that IDPA was a game, by the way  -- I agree -- but, rather, with your assertion that its goal/purpose was to have fun...

A brutal ice hockey "game" is competition, but it isn't always fun.  Ditto some football games and collegiate wrestling matches.  Or taking part in a marathon.   Fun isn't an automatic byproduct of games or competition.  Even the military plays (war) games and those games don't have FUN as their objetive -- they are far more serious.

You get out of IDPA what you can, and if fun/recreation is a by-product for you, then that's great.  I enjoy my matches and practice sessions, and fun is a also by-product for me, too.  It is a game.  No argument.  There never was.

My original intent in joining IDPA wasn't to have fun -- it was to move from ground zero in gun handling skills to something better.  Continuing to do IDPA helps me to keep improving my skills.  

If it wasn't fun, I'd still be doing it.

[ut83]

Not being a comp. shooting guru....Ill jump in here.  There are always both sides of the fence on issues like this.  

You guys hear about the parents of the kids in sporting events who end up getting into fights over stupid ref. tricks?

There are always who take there specific sport WAY TOO seriously.  Ive seen IDPA/IPSC matches, shot poppers and geared up for said matches...only to be late and not be able to shoot

I say take it as seriously as you feel comfy doing so BUT dont let your seriousness drag the guys down who are in it for fun.

If the rules are followed and people improve, what else matters?

Some people are way to serious about life, things around them and everything else.  Ill let them have their drinking problems, ulcers, grey hair (cough  ) and PRoZAk.

Life is a game...play it and enjoy it, just dont get hurt or hurt anyone else.  Thats what the voices in my head tell me to say anyway

Shoot well