How have you seen indoor matches run?

[cztops]

I go to a weekly indoor match for IPSC and IDPA. The matches are setup in one bay which is about 20' wide and 75' deep. The bay size makes it challenging to put on diverse courses of fire while getting the shooters through it in a timely manner.

I would appreciate any experiences and suggestions for how to design and run an indoor match well.

[Walt-Sherrill]

All of our matches at the Grandview Firearms Training Center are indoors.  We have 8 lanes (all in one big bay) with a 50' lane lenght.  (We can move back another 10' for the classifier, shooting from behind the line.)

I've got bunches and bunches of courses of fire already developed that fit in our small bay, and I'd be happy to share them with you.  My COFs were developed in Excel, which has some very powerful graphic capabilities.  If you don't have Excel, I can convert some of them to Word.  That will take longer.

We even have movers, using target movers to pull them.  (We even set up a pulley across the back of the range, with two targets hanging.  The center of the IDPA target is removed, and ballons put in the 9" centers.  We use a target puller as the "motor" to move the targets, with strong fishing line tied to the target.  The puller moves back, and through a pulley, the target moves across.  You've got about 2.5 - 3.00 seconds to pop the balloons, and its a challenge for even the best (nationally ranked) shooters to hit comfortably -- cause we put no shoots out in the middle.

We bought a BUNCH of very inexpensive plastic tarps ($2 each), hang them from the wires used to move the targets.  Using shower curtain hangers, we can create lanes, or walls.  We have a couple of free-standing barriers.  These allow us to fabricate many different layouts.

On simple courses of fire, we can set up two at a time.  Let one shooter shoot, then the other, and then score both at the same time.  This speeds things a bit.

The biggest time impediment we've found -- and we never have enough people running the match to master the problem -- is getting the next shooters ready and on line so that we can shoot without delays.  We have a small club, so its not an overwhelming problem.   But when we have visitors, our lack of "professionalism" is kind of embarassing.

The big problem, indoors,  is to limit movement so that non-shooters are not at risk.  So we move forward and laterally at an angle, and move back... but put a lot of emphasis on shooting from cover.

Contact me by email...  I hope you have Excel or have a friend who has it.

[cztops]

to you with my email address.

We also use large black or yellow plastic sheets strung along the target wires in the lanes. We use large paper clips that you squeeze open and then clamp the plastic to the wire. When a stiff edge is needed for the plastic, a target 1x2 is rolled in the edge and stapled to keep it from flying in the ventilation wind.

We also have four or so heavy duty 4'x7' cardboard packing sheets; one solid, others with ports cut out to shoot through. Running the lane target holder to where the port is wanted and it stablizes the cardboard. All the targets are static.

I've only been shooting indoor here for a month or two. The IPSC guys like to shoot quickly and run fast (run and gun). The IDPA match usually has less running and around 18 shots per run.

There is usually around 25-30 shooters, most of whom shoot the COF twice so we are running 40-50 scoring runs. We have three hours to clean up the range, set up the COF, run it, and tear down. Last week, we had three start signals and ran a total of about 40 shooters in 3.5 hours.

[armoredman]

I helped set up and run IDPA for about a year and a half at Jensen's, but don't have any of the COF's, as they were either pulled off the net by Carl, or we just battered our feeble minds to come up with something. The cardboard from safes, if the place you are shooting sells them, make great props, with all kind of cutout possibilities. Since we had a 10 lane, 75' indoor range, we couldn't get a car our truck out there, so we used cardboard cutouts as mockups. Same thing with other propr, like mailboxes, telephone booth, couch and TV, etc. Do you have target stands, or are all targets hanging from carriers? Tip - make sure, if you do have stands, that someone cuts extra wood for the uprights, and stash plenty of 1/2 inch staples for the staple gun to hang all kinds of nifty things. Hope something here helps.
   Dave

[cztops]

Armoredman,
The gun store does not have any safes in the showroom though, I think our barricades may have came from one. We have about 10 rebar target stands, four barricades, three of which have ports cut out to shoot through, and plastic to hang and separate targets. We have a 4'x8' closet that everything has to fit into for the match. A few more props would be welcomed addition. You can see how excited I got just pulling a three gallon paint can around.

Walt,
Concerning the moving target, I might just make a stand on wheels. I'm thinking 100' of nylon rope would work for pulling, but what do you use for the 90 degree pivot to run your fishing line through at the back of the range so the target moves across the back when someone pulls it from behind the firing line?

[Walt-Sherrill]

An eyebolt, mounted in the wall, works as the pivot.  

We also mounted a long plastic clad cable, high up, across the back of the range.  From that we hung a little car, made of pulley wheels from which hangs a piece of angled steel with holes.  This little hanging Trolley has targets attached to it, with clips/target holders.  the targets are hung from this little suspeended "cart" and pulled across -- with the line going around the eyebolt (making the 90 degree turn) to a target puller.  

It moves very easily, and we can put it up and take it down easily.  (With use the little fixtures at either end that are used for tightening cables, so we can simply twist the fittings to make the cable taut.)

[cztops]

Tuesday's match finally had some moving targets in it. We didn't string up one like Walt's across the back, we just used one of the firing line target holders and had someone operate the switch.

On the right lane against the wall was a fixed target with a no shoot covering about a third. This was about 10yds from the bullet trap. On the lane to the left, two BG targets were attached to the moving target holder. This was started at the bullet trap. The shooter started arms length away from the BG/GG target. On the buzzer, one would start retreating and drawing to shoot the BG/GG while the moving targets started towards him. (Some shot the BG/GG target at point blank range before moving back to engage the charging BGs.) There was a barricade back about 7yds where some would tac reload before pieing out the left side to engage three more BGs with a no shoot partially covering two BGs. Then move at a 45 degree angle to the left heading for cover when you see another BG which is to be engaged on the move towards cover. There were two more BGs to engage either on the way to cover or to pie around and engage once behind cover.

Had a lot of people commenting that they liked the COF.

I think next time, we will try attaching only one BG to the target. This will make the target holder off balanced and should induce even more side to side movement as it comes towards the shooter than the two targets did.

I will talk to the range owner about tapping threads in the sides of the bullet catch in order to screw in eyes and attach a pulley system across the back of the range.

Even though IPSC and IDPA are similar games, I think shooters are starting to appreciate the differences in the CsOF between the two. With the addition of IPSC's production and limited categories, the CsOF and the reasoning/mindset behind them make the biggest distinction between the two games, IMO.

----
Just to clarify, I came to the match with the idea of using the movable target holders for moving targets. The rest of the placement and COF was a colaboration with two other people besides myself. Using the moving targets for charging BGs actually came from my 8 yr old daughter. We shoot a couple times a week at the indoor range and she asked for me to move the target for her while she would shoot her S&W 317 at it.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Another thing you can do with your movers, is tie something to the bottom of them so that as they move forward, they pull OUT of the target hangers and fall.   Its very disconcerting to be getting ready to fire when the target just falls to the floor.

We've found, too, that if you set it up so that as someone rounds a corner, the mover is starting to go away, and continues going away, they tend to shoot more and more wildly... as they can't really tell what's happening.

And one match I had a little box marked in the corner of the head of one of the targets -- and said, "if you hit that corner, we'll take 5 seconds off your time."  Lots of folks wasted lots of rounds and lots of time trying to save 5 seconds... <evil grin>.

[cztops]

We talked about having a BG target moving away from the shooter but we thought with the BG disengaging, one shouldn't be firing at him.

One thought is to attach a hostage target (your family member) with the BG fleeing. Kidnapping in progress is a crime calling for a lethal response. Probably a verbal challenge should be given first. ST ... BANG, BANG, BANG! ... OP!

[Walt-Sherrill]

Just because a BG is backing up or running away, doesn't mean he isn't shooting at you!!  

You can do the reverse of what 've suggested -- and have the BG coming forward, with a string tied to the top of the target and attached to something solid in the rear.  As it come farther forward, the string pulls it from the hanger.  

The movement alone is enough to induce stress.  When it drops, the shooters generally get perplexed and then have to decide what to do -- all of which EATS TIME!!

We've got a match next week, but all are being shot from cover, but with lots of targets and more than a few no-shoots.   Several of them require a good bit of movement.

Its hard making interesting courses of fire in a small indoor range...