new member with questions

[Twitchfire]

Hey all.  I've been trolling this board for awhile and its finally time to buy a pistol .  First.. a little about me.  I currently own no handguns.  This will be my first (and only for awhile) pistol so I have been researching my butt off trying to make the right choice.  I had decided on a G19 because I live close to a really good shop that sells them already upgraded.  Unfortuanately I got a chance to hold a 75 and I changed my mind (I'm sure you all can understand.) My budget is tight and money comes in spurts so I want to purchase any needed upgrades right from the start instead of getting them as needed.  After reading through here I'm pretty well sold on one of the Angus custom SP01s.....few questions though.  When spending in the thousand dollar range the choices open up considerably.  How does the custom CZ compare to the stock upper cost guns (sig,para,etc)?  I have avoided comparing the CZ to them because they cost twice as much and figured it wasn't fair.  Also I love to shoot.  I could easily see myself getting into competition assuming its an option in my area.  I have no bad habits to unlearn and want to practice correctly from day one.  How should I go about getting a proper start without excessive cost?  This gun will be my EDC in addition to my range gun... it sounds silly and don't be offended but can I trust my life on this gun?  Ah...so many questions.  I've only held the 75 and 75 compact and both felt fine (compact only barely..pinky almost off) but the anniversery edition was much too fat for my grip.  How do the cocobolo grips on the custom compare in thickness to the stock 75 grips?
Sorry to dump on ya but I appriciate the help.

[stdlrf11]

First off, welcome!

Since this is your first handgun, IMO, you won't be able to tell the difference between a thousand dollar custom and a stock CZ. When I started shooting, I couldn't. Even now, I don't think they're worth the extra $$$, especially for an EDC gun. Now for a range and competition gun? maybe, I don't know.
A custom SP01 will be a horrible EDC gun because it is too big and heavy. Most people I know either carry a small gun or they don't carry at all. It's too much work to comfortably conceal a large frame auto every single day. Look into the compact models, like the P-01, PCR or the 75 compact.

As far as upgrades, none are needed for a stock CZ to have a good, reliable gun. You can put fancy extras, like grips, later, but they aren't necessary.

Spend the money for proper training. It is worth EVERY penny. Find a reputable instructor, don't just trust the guy behind the gun counter to show you a few things.



stdlrf11

[Twitchfire]

Thanks for the quick response .  Actually your response makes my day for several reasons.  I am trying hard to keep my total purchase under 1000 and that custom would take almost all of it.  A stock CZ would leave me plenty for extra mags, holster, etc that I need.  I have heard people complain about the stock trigger though, in your opinion do you think a job is needed?  If at some point in the future I need it tuned it would be better for me financially if I get it up front.  As far as training goes...I'm not sure its an option where I live.  I might be able to squeeze in a trip to gunsite in the future but its not likely in the cards for '08.  I held the compact (in stainless...what a looker) and liked it but can't get my hands on a P01 to compare.  Which do you think is the better option?

[Twitchfire]

Also you can feel free to disregard the comment about competition.  As a new shooter, I have no idea if I will ever be even intro competition ready.  I love the sport and god willing will participate one day but can easily buy a dedicated gun for it down the road.  This purchase is strictly range/carry/HD but would have been nice if there was a choice that covered beginner comp.

[CZmoney]

Having owned Browning, Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Charter Arms, and who knows what else, I stepped in quality by dumping all those and getting my first CZ, a P-01.  I have 5 total now, and understand I would have paid for a Sig, but why?  You will never know the difference, you will be AMAZED at how well, no how awesome you shoot, and then you have a world famous, world utilized, and exceedingly high quality gun.

Just look at all the Glock, HK, Sig, 1911, and what not other quality brands, and then read articles about CZ 75s and all the variants, and you will be VERY HAPPY with your decision that we CZers know, that there are very few if any, guns out there that can shoot better at double or triple the price on one CZ.

Just my .02,

Gene

[Radom]

Some thoughts for you (or "things I learned the hard way"):

1. A J frame .38 Special is considerably better than nothing. In other words, a full-size that had to be left at home or in the car isn't doing you much good. A J frame is the largest handgun that can be carried at virtually all times and places, in my experience.

2. By and large, you get what you pay for in a handgun, but it is critically important to understand what exactly you are paying for. One reason that German and Swiss pistols cost more than Czech or Brazilian pistols is that the workers in those countries earn higher wages. SIG in particular has a reputation for nicer internal finishing than CZ. That's great, but you're paying for a lot of hand labor that is absolutely unnecessary for smooth functioning. Some models cost more, because the manufacturer has semi-customized the pistol with aftermarket parts, such as some Dan Wesson and Kimber 1911A1s.

3. In general, a middle of the road handgun with custom work is a better shooter than an expensive stock model. There are many, many exceptions to this one, so I hesitated to mention it. I am also presuming that the "custom" work is sensible and professional. IMHO, a customized CZ running near $1,000 is a better pistol than a stock H&K for the same price, but I am very biased.

4. Generally, simpler is better. A lot of people modify handguns because they are trying to overcome a technique problem with an "equipment fix." (I am not exactly a paragon in this respect, myself.) That's generally a bad thing, because you have really only learned to shoot one gun: i.e. your gun.

5. New CZs rarely have night sights. (Only a handful of models have even had that as an option.) If that is important to you, then I would consider them. Otherwise, they really don't need any upgrades. Some people have trigger work done, but these pistols always break in well enough to suit me.

6. I have carried a P-01 before, and it used to be my "go-to-the-door" pistol. (I recently traded mine for a gunsafe, which I needed badly.) I plan on getting one again, and soon. Like the first one, I will probably leave it bone stock. The only thing I usually do with CZs are replace springs as needed and put on the CZ-USA rubber grips. The P-01 already has the rubber grips as OEM, so I was all set.

[stdlrf11]

You don't have to go to a "Tactical" school to get good training. Where abouts do you live? I'm sure someone will be able to point you in the direction of a good teacher in your area.

Don't plan on customizing your first gun. Use it as a learning tool. If you want a fancy gun later, then buy one. My first handgun was a Ruger P95DC. Once I learned to shoot that thing, I could shoot any gun. I kept it bone stock and shot at least 20,000 rounds through it. When I switched to the CZ, I appreciated the difference in quality much more than if I had started with the CZ. Now I don't even like my Dept. issued Sig. There is even talk of switching to the dreaded Glock!

As far as the trigger goes, mine was rough for the first 500 or so rounds. Now, 9,000 rounds later, it's as smooth as can be expected. I wouldn't change it if I were you. As FEG stated, night sights are a good investment. I think Metropolite (sp) is the only maker for the CZ line.

For concealed carry, all you need as far as extras are:
at least 2 magazines, 3 if you want (hi-caps if legal in your area)
a good holster
a magazine holster
good knife
good flashlight



just my opinion
stdlrf11

[William Chase]

Twitchfire,

I was in much the same place as you in Spring 1006. I had never owned a firearm and only shot .22 rifles as a kid, some 45+ years ago. I wanted to get into concealed carry, and being of a very pragmatic nature, felt I needed a pistol I could shoot in friendly (i.e., no real pressure) competition, to keep me sharp and add a "hobby" side to the ownership.

I have a LEO brother who is a Glock fanatic, for good reason, but I also read all the magazine articles and books I could find on semi-autos. The more I read, the more I kept running across phrases like "a great value," and "shoots like a gun costing 2x 3x as much" describing the CZs.

Before taking my CHL class, I took my local gunshop's "Handguns 101" class. The guy teaching was good, and having done my homework, I did pretty well with the Glock 34 they used. I mentioned that I was curious about the CZs, and he kindly pulled the 4-year-old 75B the range had for rent. Even though the 75 was beat up from hard use, it felt like a part of me, an extension of my arm. I was convinced my choice would be a CZ!

Now, which model? Due to my techie nature, and to some degree lack of understanding of the internals of firearms, I decided on the SP-01 Tactical (decocker model). I loved the way it felt, and it shot far better than I could. I got a CrossBreed SuperTuck holster and carried it, but at over 3# loaded, it wasn't the most practical. A few months later, I managed to pick up a used P-01. Amazingly (to me) this gun shot as good or better than the SP-01, though maybe not as fast, and was much easier to carry all day. I have used the SP-01 in USPSA Production class, and while I'm not really competitive, I enjoy it immensely. I have no doubt the P-01 will serve me there, as well.

So, anyway, I'd suggest you look at the P-01, or possibly a PCR (the lack of rail would make carry even easier) for your all-around gun.

The triggers are a bit gritty, but only require a bit of practice to get used to. Or, if you wanted, you could order one from Angus Hobdell or Matthew Mink with an already-tuned trigger and the Meprolight night sights for a bit more $$$.

Good luck!
Bill

[stdlrf11]

Twitchfire,  
 
  I was in much the same place as you in Spring 1006.

WOW!! You're old!

Great story, great advice.

stdlrf11

[William Chase]

Twitchfire,    
   
    I was in much the same place as you in Spring 1006.

WOW!! You're old!

 

Ooopsie!

That is, Spring 2006! (But yes, I AM old! )

[Twitchfire]

I appriciate all the help and useful advice. I'm glad Yuko finally let me on the board or I might have made some costly errors. Now I just need to find a credible teacher in north-central KY I had quite a few other questions come to mind earlier but I will have to post them a bit later.  My head is throbbing right now and I am badly in need of some ibuprofen *groan

[Wild Rice.fz1ownersassoci...]

My first recommendation would be a CZ75 P-01 with Kadet 22LR conversion kit.  This is a great sytem for self defense, concealed carry, and target training.  My other recommendation would be a Springfield Armory XD in the caliber of your choice.  Great value for the money, fun to shoot, and reliable right out of the box.



 

[Twitchfire]

I completely forgot about the Kadet kit!!!  Between my brother-in-laws's mk3 and our rifles I plink through about 2k rounds a month and absolutely love playing 22lr "golf."  Please tell me the Kadet  is worth the money.  As things stand now I am budgeting for about 300 rounds per month to practice with.  If I can add 22lr to the mix I can truly put some time in.  BTW guys... thanks for being so cool.  The CZ community is phenomenal and I'm proud to be part of it.