1978 CZ 75 Short Rail- Musings, Review, and Too Much Praise

[CM Rich]

Been meaning to post some pics of my favorite acquisition, but I wanted to try and get a decent camera first. No dice, so I'll make due with what I've got for the time being. I'll use links instead of posting them all here in the topic as to avoid killing anyone's browser.

'78 Pic 1
'78 Pic 2
'78 Pic 3

Paired with my customized '07 "guinea pig" 75B:

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 5

Some people here know where I got this thing- a heated bidding war on Gunbroker, where there were actually TWO short rails of similar condition up for grabs simultaneously. I happened to have been saving for a SHADOW at the time, but when this was brought to my attention I immediately dedicated myself to getting it. I've wanted a short rail since my teenage years, and I knew this might be my one and only chance to nab one in the sub-1,000 range. Everything just seemed to be in alignment.

I recieved the gun in pretty good condition, all things considered. It was indeed a South Africa service pistol, as was common for many of the early 75s due to the US embargo against the Eastern Bloc. This gun is Parkerized, having been refinished due to the original glossy blue having been worn away. It was missing its original waffle-style grips, but aside from that it had all of its original parts and was in perfect working order. All of the internals appeared to be near new.

There are only a few patches of what I'd consider light pitting, mainly beneath the slide stop lever, safety, and grip area, as well as the left side of the front end of the slide. There are the usual nicks and very minor blemishes to be found in a 30 year old service gun, but all in all I'm very pleased with the condition. Its still a very handsome and presentable piece.

As I search for a real pair of original grips, I pirated some replicas off of an airsoft gun. They do the job, but aren't meant to be a permanent solution. I've contacted Omega of Omega Grips for a special request in the meantime, and I hope to hear back from him soon.

I've also contacted AWP Cogan about refinishing, as well as some gunsmithing work. I was originally going to send it to Angus, and ask him to send it to Cogan, but with shipping charges so outrageous. And not to mention my own apprehension about shipping valuable firearms around the nation. Since Cogan offers gunsmithing and refinishing all in-house, I decided to take that option. I'm hoping Angus doesn't take it personally.

As luck would have it, just today I was at the range/shop when I glanced into a discount bin of mags. Believe it or not, but in plain view were not one, but TWO pre-B mags! Without thinking, I pulled the CZ from its case and tested the fit- perfect! Though I got yelled at for handling my gun without store supervision (an admitted blunder and display of lack of common sense on my part that I quickly apologized for), it ended up being a very, very good deal at only 10 bucks a mag. All they need are some new springs and they'll be ready to roll.

I'll be calling CZ-USA soon to check and see if they have any spare parts for the Retro model laying around- I'll definately be getting some slide stops, and maybe a safety lever or two, if they have them in stock still.

Back to Cogan, I have some special ideas in mind for the gun to make it worth the trip. I debated whether or not to completely restore the gun to factory spec, including the blue finish, but I thought better of it. As much as I love the look and feel of a genuine master blue finish, I don't like the high maintainence aspect involved. I've decided to compromise, looking to their Cerakote finish in SOCOM blue. I've also asked if they'll spray it with a gloss clear ceramic finish (from the same company that makes Cerakote, NIC Industries). I'm hoping they'll get back to me soon as well.

Along with filling in the pitting and touching up the roll marks, I'm asking them to add Jim Miossi's Custom Hard sear while they do a full action job. I'm also asking them to tighten up the slide and frame fit- its just a wee bit loose right now, but nothing catastrophic. I've also asked if they'll be able to retrofit a new barrel into the gun, and to re-engrave the original serial number into the breech face after filling in the new number.

The trigger, both barrels, and hammer would be hard chromed, and finished in a semi-polish look. With the dark blue Cerakote and some nice Omega American walnut full checker grips, this will make for a very striking appearance.

Perhaps you want to know how the gun actually performs? I'm pleased to report that it is at least on par with its contemporary B ancestors. The grip is the same as the B models- a definate good thing, proving the Koucky brothers got it right the first time. The only difference is found in the tang, which flips up very slightly towards the end instead of continuing over the hand. I actually prefer the Bs tang design to this, myself.

This is a very early CZ 75, as evidenced by its hammer, which lacks the safety notches. This pretty much means that the only mechanical safety feature on this gun was the safety switch itself, and that was it.

Trigger pull in DA is amazing. I don't know if its because it had time to break in over all thes eyears, the lack of the firing pin block, or both, but either way, the trigger is amazingly smooth and light, with a very crisp break. SA mode is also exceptional, even more so than stock Bs. I wouldn't go so far as to claim its better than the CZ 75 SA's, or my "street jobbed" custom B with the steel adjustable trigger, but its definately a sweet trigger. The shape of the trigger also helps, as its less curved, providing about two millimeters of extra reach. With thin grips, this makes a vast difference.

The sights are very small, and demand your full concentration in order to maximize their potential. No night sights here; not even white paint. Just old school "line up them notches". I get a kick out them, since I seem to do better with them than my fancy fiber optic sights. Could be psychological, however.

In shooting the vintage 75, recoil is very managable, but I have yet to master this gun. I'm a relatively new shooter (started in March of this year), so I still have alot to learn. However, I'm learning with such a fine tool that demands full respect and attention that I think that will help me in the long run. My personal best group at this point has been 3 and 1/2 inches at 25 feet using this gun (using a two-handed, aggresive iscosoles stance). I actually seem to shoot consistantly better using a one-handed power stance, strangely enough. Today I got a 4 inch group at 25 using this stance and gun, with two strays.

With 500 rounds down its pipe since it appeared in my hands, the old CZ has only given me two stovepipes thus far. It feeds my favorite ammo types flawlessly- Winchester WBB (best bang for my buck, in my opinion), and Hornady TAP FPD, with its super smooth black nickle finished cases. You can definately feel a difference between these two rounds- you really can feel a difference in how the Hornady feeds. It must be tried in order to understand. However, I seem most accurate using plain ol' white box.

I also have allowed some of my friends to put a few mags through it. A friendof mine from Canada, who rarely gets to shoot, managed an impressive 2 inch group at 25'. My best friend's old lady was pretty impressive for her first time ever shooting, though her jewelry put some harm onto the CZ's Parked finish .

Oh well. Its even more of an excuse to get it refinished!

All in all, this gun has actually managed to live up to my boyhood expectations. All I need to do is live up to what the gun is capable of.

And believe it or not, I plan on qualifying for my CCW with ths same gun before I send it away for its refinishing. If I can pass with this thing, I can pass with anything, I figure. Plus, I plan on very rarely carrying it in a Bianchi X15 shoulder rig. I have a personal creed of carrying any gun I happen to own for self defense. I do not planon owning junk guns at any point. I would carry it on Condition One, stocked with Hornady TAP FTP. I'd feel perfectly safe with this set up.

In closing, I believe that everyone has a gun that fits them to a T. I believe that I have been fortunate enough to know ahead of time what mine might have been, and to have realized it so soon. And I couldn't be happier.

[FEG]

Great review.  I'm going to re-read it and post again later to do it justice. 

[AndyC]

Beautiful pistol - my dad had one just like it as his first CZ in 1977.

I have a question about its ancestry, however - I lived in South Africa for 30 years and the CZ was never the SA Police service pistol (they used the Walther P38 and then the Beretta 92, later using an SA-made clone of the Beretta called the Z88). I'm curious why you think it was an issue-pistol, because I've heard the same claim on another forum and it's not how I remember it.

[FEG]

We've had SA members who identified it as an issue pistol.  I don't know much about law enforcement in SA.  Do the provinces and townships have law enforcement at that level, or is it all national?  For example, the U.S. has Federal law enforcement (FBI, DEA, etc.), State law enforcement (mosty the various state police forces, some "alphabet agencies" too), county law enforcement (sheriffs) and local law enforcement (municipal police departments).  In other words, some other department or agency other than the national police force may have issued them.  It never occurred to me to doubt them, because CZs are as common as dirt in SA. 

We had a member from SA who ended up immigrating to Canada.  He owned a farm near Pretoria.  He would send us news stories of real shooting incidents involving CZs.  One in particular that I recall involved police breaking up a robbery at a KFC in JoBurg.  This was about eight years ago, so my memory may just be lousy.

Anyway, I did some internet research recently to help a fellow from JoBurg select a first pistol.  We discovered that once you leave Johannesburg, Durban, and Pretoria, you are pretty much limited to CZs, Norincos, and South African makes (i.e. Vektor, RAP) in 9mm, as far as what the shops carry. 

[AndyC]

The SA Police Service is national - there's no difference between a policeman in Cape Town and one in Johannesburg or Pretoria. There are different units, of course - Flying Squad, Highway Patrol, Special Task Force (in Afrikaans = "Taakmag"), etc. Task Force guys are more than just SWAT - they're selected and trained just about to the same level as Special Forces operators - and I'm wondering if they would be the ones to have CZs, seeing as they can use whichever weapons they like. I haven't lived there for about 4 years now (3 years here, 1 in the sandbox) but I used to shoot with some Taakies in Cape Town and while they definitely admired the pistol, none of those boys had them in those days.

What I'm getting at, though, is that I've never heard or seen the CZ being a general-issue weapon in the SAPS and I'm curious as to who actually used them.

[CM Rich]

I honestly can't remember where I first heard that the original 75s were South African favorites, but I never really doubted it. From what I've come to understand, South Africa was the only country officially using them in the first few years of its existance. It wouldn't be until later when the Swiss police gave the pistol its first major contract. Some say the Swiss stipulated that the 75 need to change to the current 3/4 rail design. I don't how much of that I buy. I personally think CZ was going to switch to the newer design in either case due to fears of frame failures persisting.

My gun has a service number stamped on the frame, slide, and barrel. Its very faint, so it didn't show up in the photos above. The number is RA155.

What I don't know is what branch of South African government used the CZ75. Given their very limited numbers, and this gun's nearly perfect shape and function (aside from the original finish and grips being gone, all of its mechanics are apparently original and pristine. This leads me to believe that perhaps they weren't a field pistol, and perhaps issued to officials not directly in the line of fire, who carried full-sized guns.

I'm probably going to take the time soon to send my serial number to CZ and see where this gun has been. Anyone ever done such a thing through CZ?

[Walt Sherrill]

The slide stop from a retro will probably work with your older CZ, but its highly unlikely that the safety will be compatible.  The Retro is a 75B made to look like an older CZ, and the parts for the safety seem quite different, including an internal (on the frame) detent on the Retro.  Cz has few pre-B specific parts, absolutely none of the older-design safeties.  (We've all asked.)

You've gotten a nice gun, but its a bit like marrying a "trophy" wife:  will you be able to afford the exercise.

[AndyC]

What I don't know is what branch of South African government used the CZ75.

I'd be really interested to hear what you discover - I'll also email that RA-number to an SAP friend of mine and see if he's able to turn anything up on his side.

[Walt Sherrill]

About two years ago, one importer brought in a bunch of pre-Bs from South Africa.  The story they told us was that the guns had been used as service weapons in a police force, but I never got a good explanation as to what police force. 

A number of members at the time bought some of the guns, which varied from almost pristine, to pretty rough -- all at very reasonable prices.  None of these guns were short-rail models, as far as I know.

[AndyC]

I just got a reply from my mate Craig, who's with a unit of the SAPS in Cape Town - here's what he has to say:

Yeah sure. The SAPS have never ever ever ever ever in its history used or issued Czech weapons mate.. that's easy.. In 1992 we were issued for the first time with the Z88 and Beretta in 9mmP, prior to that we were all issued the Walther P38 9mmP (8 shot capacity) and ladies or u/cover the Walther PPk in 9mm Short.

For a short while, some Beretta Model 84s were in use chambered for 9mm short. The only other pistols in use are currently the RAP which is a locally made 9mmP with an 8 shot mag (aka the CRAP!) and the H&K USP by the Special Task Force who have well, whatever they want really.

The CZ would never have been taken into service by us purely because it would have come from a commie country, cost more than the local stuff, been single action and therefore not suited to police work - hell even the old P38 wasn't too bad as a pea shooter.

I'll triple check with the armourer but will put my nuts on it mate, I had a CZ75 at one stage, lovely weapons but definitely not suited to cops with minimal training because of the single action.

Just called a mate quickly who's been in for 35 years plus and he agrees, only the weapons above in the order above and definitely no CZ. Will check that serial no, but its' at a glance a digit short for having come from here. Will double check that though.

C

[AndyC]

Another reply:

Armourer says the predecessor to the P38 was a .38 spl revolver and the CZ definitely didn't feature as a service weapon. One of the guys at the armoury in Jhb  says it's a very very minute possibility that it was issued to the early Task Force members, but there's no record of it.

If the gent can't substantiate its pedigree with some paperwork it would definitely not be on the up an up.

[CM Rich]

Odd.

I'm certainly not doubting your source, but many people seem to be under the impression that the CZ 75 series had been used in that country, at least in some limited capacity. Though, as your source pointed out, without paperwork, my assumption is just that- an assumption. It just seems strange that so many people could be so wrong.

Now I'm wondering if by South Africa, it was meant as a region and not an actual country, though I doubt that.

A strange mystery that kind of adds to the mystique.

I'm also wondering as to what the origin of this RA number is. It looks stamped in- too neat to be etched in by hand. Private owners wouldn't do such a thing, I wouldn't think. The small amount of digits also seem to indicate this was a member of a very small group of pistols.

In any case, I appreciate the light you shed on it, even if I was proven wrong. At least I know a little bit more about this classic gun.

[AndyC]

Someone on another forum I hang out on mentioned the same thing about having an RA-number and an apparent South African history, so I'm really curious and would like to get to the bottom of it as well.

You might be onto something there - Southern Africa as a region (Mozambique, South Africa, Lesotho, Swaziland, Namibia, Angola, Zimbabwe, Botswana, etc) are considered Southern African states - it doesn't take a long stretch of the imagination for someone to mistake one for the other - and a legend is born

He's currently checking the serial-number itself to see if it was ever registered to anyone in SA through the Central Firearms Registry in Pretoria - might take a while to get an answer, though. I'll post back here as soon as I hear anything from him.

[FEG]

Odd.

I'm certainly not doubting your source, but many people seem to be under the impression that the CZ 75 series had been used in that country, at least in some limited capacity. Though, as your source pointed out, without paperwork, my assumption is just that- an assumption. It just seems strange that so many people could be so wrong.

Now I'm wondering if by South Africa, it was meant as a region and not an actual country, though I doubt that.

A strange mystery that kind of adds to the mystique.

I'm also wondering as to what the origin of this RA number is. It looks stamped in- too neat to be etched in by hand. Private owners wouldn't do such a thing, I wouldn't think. The small amount of digits also seem to indicate this was a member of a very small group of pistols.

In any case, I appreciate the light you shed on it, even if I was proven wrong. At least I know a little bit more about this classic gun.

Well, I think we can approach it this way.

Confirmed Facts:

1) SA never issued the CZ-75 to the national police on any real scale.
2) CZ-75s are relatively common in SA.

Facts that Cannot Be Easily Confirmed:

1) At least one U.S. importer claims to have had SA surplus service pistols.  It may be more.  I know of one in Minnesota.  Walt may be thinking of another one, which would make at least two.  I don't necessarily blame the importer(s) if this proves false.  They get their weapons from middlemen too.
2) I recall a Reuter's article sent to me involving a police shoot-out with CZ-75s in Johannesburg.  This could be explained any number of ways.  My memory could be even worse than I thought.  The policemen may have been off-duty or carrying personal weapons, for example.  Hard to call when I can't locate the thread in the archives.  

A Question for Our Friends in SA:  

In South Africa, what would be the most likely explanation for what appears to be a surplus service pistol, but probably isn't?  

Here in the U.S., just for example, some private security companies like Brinks and Wells Fargo engrave their own inventory number on some of their guns.  Another viable explanation for the U.S. would have been that some small, obscure law enforcement agency (God knows we have enough of them) issued a small number, which is just too difficult to trace without assistance from CZ.  

If I had to guess, I bet some private security company "issued" the pistols in question.  

[AndyC]

I worked for an armed-response company for a few years before getting into executive-protection, and we were issued CZ75s (under the company's license) so that's quite possible; however, even security-companies are not allowed to make up their own serial-numbers and stamp them on the firearm.

If anything, it would have had to have been a WR-number issued by the SA Police to civilians firearms - so I'm still at a loss to explain the RA-number. Curiouser and curiouser...