Author Topic: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP  (Read 10771 times)

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Offline Sravaka

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Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« on: November 02, 2008, 06:04:00 AM »
ok, I have been searching for which round I am going to use for my carry load/nightstand home defense load, it has to do both, and it has come down to these 2.  Right now I am using the Double Tap 124 gr. +P GDJHP.  I love this round and so does my P-01.  Mike over at Double Tap really knows how to load these things.  However, I have been reading up on the Federal HST 124 gr. +P JHP and it looks awesome as well.  I know the Speer Gold Dot is a street proven bullet with great penetration and expansion.  The Federal HST round looks like it may expand a little better but may not penetrate quite as well.  What do you guys think?  Another question is 124gr vs 147 gr.  The 9mm round was designed with a 124 gr projectile so it should be the best, however, is bigger better?  I know either would be great, both expand real pretty, but I would like to know your thoughts and opinions out there.  Thanks,

Sravaka


« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 06:40:37 AM by Sravaka »
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Offline Sravaka

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 06:31:33 AM »
Here is another comparison of the 2:

Sravaka



Si vis pacem, para bellum.

CZ 75 P-01 OD green finish
Sig Sauer P225

Offline CZnewbe

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 09:35:06 AM »
I'll be interested in the feedback you get.  Based on my limited Internet research it looks like a very subjective decision.  That being said I don't recall reading about anyone that dogs the Gold Dot.  Even if they like another round better, they will concede that the Gold Dot is "almost as good".  On the other hand Gold Dot proponents aren't always as generous when reviewing the Hydra Shok, but perhaps the new HST is better.  Definitely saw some mixed reviews on the "Double Tap" load.  Some think it pushes the bullet beyond its designed limits.  Others are just offended that it isn't manufactured by one of the "big boys".  Guess I've made my decision, I just purchased 100 rounds of Speer Gold Dot from AmmunitionToGo.  I know my pistols will feed the stuff.  Not sure I want to go through the process of testing another round to see which of my pistols like it and which ones do not.  Also, I use the +P in the CZ 85 and the standard load in most of my smaller CCWs.  Even though the CCWs can handle the +P load, my accuracy drops too much.   

Offline Sravaka

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 09:49:05 AM »
What grain did you get?  How heavy are they?  115, 124 or 147 and why did you choose the weight you did?

Sravaka
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Offline CZnewbe

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 10:37:22 AM »
What grain did you get?  How heavy are they?  115, 124 or 147 and why did you choose the weight you did?

Sravaka

I went with the 124 based upon some Internet articles I read.  Although one would think that bigger is better, I read somewhere that the 147 grain 9mm was a concept that proved to be a mistake, and one should never use it for defensive purposes.  I forgot the reason, but I suspect it's the inability to generate optimum velocity, particularly for the smaller CCWs.  I also own two S&W 357 mag revolvers, and the 124 grain 357 is apparently a legend for effectiveness.  As far as I can tell there is little difference between a 124 grain 9mm bullet and a 124 grain 357 mag bullet.  Instead the difference must be attributed to the load and the speed at which the bullet is delivered.  Even with the 357 mag some swear by the 124 grain bullet while others go with the heavier bullets.  With 357 mags there seems to be a lot discussion about the flash and recoil associated with different manufacturers and the loads they use.  If I recall correctly the concensus was that heavier bullets typically recoil more.  I'm not sure if it's the same for 9mm.  Although I'm interested in the topic, truth be told, I would be surprised if there was really that significant a difference in the real world.  I know I wouldn't want to be shot with either a 124 or 147 grain bullet.   
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 10:44:28 AM by CZnewbe »

Offline brokenarrowjbe

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 10:30:32 PM »
try the boxotruth for results. Those guys are open to anything I think. Here is the page of JHP 9 mm http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot10_3.htm good luck, John

Offline firecracker6

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 02:47:57 AM »
I don't think you can go wrong with either one.  The gold dot it used by a ton of law enforement people and federal has made great ammo for a long time.  As for the weights, I think most law enforcement agencies got away from the 147gr bullets a long time ago; it seems they didn't perform well.  As I understand it, most people think the 124gr is the way to go, but the 115gr doesn't do to bad either.  Hope that helps.

Offline twoguns

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 07:35:25 PM »
Howdy Mr. Sravaka,

Since you are asking for opinions, I will offer mine. 

First I do not believe that there is one "magic" bullet, that will outperform all others clearly.  I personally think that given the advances seen in duty type loads in various calibers in recents decades (yep I is an old fart  ;D ) just about any bullet from an established manufacturer will do it's part as long as I do mine.  I think shot placement is far more important than the brand of projectile coming out of my barrel.

As a 37 years police firearms instructor, I have fired and issued most of the commonly discussed rounds and calibers.  Again, my personal opinion over the decades is that most rounds will funtion as intended as long as we do our part shooting them.  That said, are there some rounds that perform better than others do - probably, at least in my view.

My agency was lucky in hiring a true ballistican to become our first real "ammo expert".  He had retired from HP White and found sitting around all day bored him to death.  Our national firearms unit at the time was located in his town, so he jumped at the offer, and it proved to be a win-win for everyone.

He reviewed all of the current rounds being offered in the various calibers we allowed at the time, and selected various bullets for duty use for us.  I can tell you that Mr. Jim was extremely impressed with the performance of both the Gold Dot and the Golden Saber loads in 9mm, and seemed to favor the Gold Dot projectiles in other calibers.

The trend that I have seen in both my agency and others law enforcement groups I have discussed the issue with, is to choose a 124 grain HP load for 9mm pistols.  The FBI selected the 147 grain JHP decades ago, when poor tactics in Miami, forced them to blame their carry round (the 115 grain Win STHP) instead of their tactics (my opinion, but based on discussions with several folks, including DEA firearms instructors based at Quantico at the time).  Most agencies have since concluded the 147 grain bullets often will not feed as reliably as the 124 grain loads, especially when several makes and models of handguns are involved. 

I would not feel under armed with either load to be honest - as long as I put the round where it needs to go.  But since you are asking what our personal perferences are, I will tell you that you will find Gold Dot bullets in assorted calibers loading in all of my pistol magazines.

Hope this will help a bit anyway sir.  Others may have different experiences they can offer.  But I will agree with the comment that the Speer Gold Dot ammo does indeed have an excellent street rep among law enforcement agencies.  It is certainly not due to any greatly reduced cost, as it is not the cheapest round an agency could select for issuance, for sure.  So there is a valid reason I think, why so many LE agencies continue to purchase and issue this round.

twoguns

Offline Sravaka

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 10:21:47 PM »
twoguns, I want to really thank you for taking the time and making the effort to express your thoughts here, it is greatly appreciated.  Your comments show balance and wisdom and are very credible in my eyes.  I have 3 boxes of the HST coming for testing in my P-01 so we will see what it does but I have a sneaking feeling that when I make my bulk SD order it will probably be Double Tap.  But who knows maybe the HST will change my mind when I actually shoot it and that, to me, is very important.  All too often I see people on forums criticize things they have never actually tried for themselves.  Doing your homework is important but when the research is done you have to go out and get hands on experience before making your final judgment on something.  I think I have enough old phone books lying around to do an expansion test or I may even get some Perma-Gel which looks really nice.  Thanks again for your input.

Sravaka
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

CZ 75 P-01 OD green finish
Sig Sauer P225

Offline CZnewbe

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 10:25:26 PM »
Howdy Mr. Sravaka,

Since you are asking for opinions, I will offer mine. 

First I do not believe that there is one "magic" bullet, that will outperform all others clearly.  I personally think that given the advances seen in duty type loads in various calibers in recents decades (yep I is an old fart  ;D ) just about any bullet from an established manufacturer will do it's part as long as I do mine.  I think shot placement is far more important than the brand of projectile coming out of my barrel.

As a 37 years police firearms instructor, I have fired and issued most of the commonly discussed rounds and calibers.  Again, my personal opinion over the decades is that most rounds will funtion as intended as long as we do our part shooting them.  That said, are there some rounds that perform better than others do - probably, at least in my view.

My agency was lucky in hiring a true ballistican to become our first real "ammo expert".  He had retired from HP White and found sitting around all day bored him to death.  Our national firearms unit at the time was located in his town, so he jumped at the offer, and it proved to be a win-win for everyone.

He reviewed all of the current rounds being offered in the various calibers we allowed at the time, and selected various bullets for duty use for us.  I can tell you that Mr. Jim was extremely impressed with the performance of both the Gold Dot and the Golden Saber loads in 9mm, and seemed to favor the Gold Dot projectiles in other calibers.

The trend that I have seen in both my agency and others law enforcement groups I have discussed the issue with, is to choose a 124 grain HP load for 9mm pistols.  The FBI selected the 147 grain JHP decades ago, when poor tactics in Miami, forced them to blame their carry round (the 115 grain Win STHP) instead of their tactics (my opinion, but based on discussions with several folks, including DEA firearms instructors based at Quantico at the time).  Most agencies have since concluded the 147 grain bullets often will not feed as reliably as the 124 grain loads, especially when several makes and models of handguns are involved. 

I would not feel under armed with either load to be honest - as long as I put the round where it needs to go.  But since you are asking what our personal perferences are, I will tell you that you will find Gold Dot bullets in assorted calibers loading in all of my pistol magazines.

Hope this will help a bit anyway sir.  Others may have different experiences they can offer.  But I will agree with the comment that the Speer Gold Dot ammo does indeed have an excellent street rep among law enforcement agencies.  It is certainly not due to any greatly reduced cost, as it is not the cheapest round an agency could select for issuance, for sure.  So there is a valid reason I think, why so many LE agencies continue to purchase and issue this round.

twoguns

Good enough for TwoGuns, then good enough for me.

Offline twoguns

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 11:37:44 PM »
Howdy again folks,

I just want to clarify something more clearly.  I am aware that Double Tap often uses the Speer GDHP projectiles in their line of ammo.  While I have a few boxes of Double Tap on hand, I have not really had the time to do much testing with it.

When I stated that all of my carry pistols were loaded with Speer Gold Dots in various calibers, I meant as manufactured by Speer (not Double Tap). 

So in my previous post please do not confuse my comments, as when I used the GDHP or referred to such rounds, I meant those made by Speer.

I just wanted to clarify which company our "expert" was impressed with, for the sake of this topic.

If my thoughts were helpful to folks, I am glad.  But I am sure others may well have different views on this topic.  I often tell folks that if you put the round where it needs to go, I seriously doubt if the bad guy will ever be able to tell the difference between standard/+P/+P+ velocities.  I think the same will largely be just as true for the brand of projectile that comes out of the barrel.

My best suggestion is to let your particular pistol make the final decision for you on which carry round option is the best.  Before making a major purchase, buy a couple of boxes of both the Federal (you already have ordered) and the Speer.  Include the Double Tap for comparison if you want as well.

Then shoot the various brands, and see which round your particular pistol seems to group the tightest with, and which you can shoot the most accurately.  Afterall, you are searching for an accurate, effective carry round.  Let your weapon tell you that works well for me.  If they all seem to work equally well, then personally, I would lean towards the Speer 124 gr GDHP.

Just wanted to clarify the actual ammo brand that I carry routinely.

twoguns

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2008, 07:22:06 PM »
As a side note for reloaders....

Graf has Speer 147gr Gold Dot bullets on sale right now.
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Offline Sravaka

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2008, 04:28:30 AM »
ok . . .  the Federal 124 gr +P HST ammo I ordered is in so testing will be soon to follow.  The weather is pretty bad here in Oregon right now so I am not sure about any outdoor stuff but I should hit the indoor range sometime this week or next.  I will post any relevant results.

Sravaka
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 12:14:37 PM »
ok . . .  the Federal 124 gr +P HST ammo I ordered is in so testing will be soon to follow.  The weather is pretty bad here in Oregon right now so I am not sure about any outdoor stuff....

Being in Oregon.... can't you just blast some passing Sasquatch and settle both issues at once?

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Offline Artist

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Re: Speer Gold Dot JHP VS Federal HST JHP
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 12:51:18 PM »
I put 200 rounds of 147gr HST +P through my Shadow outfitted with a DPM recoil reduction system this weekend (I used the silver spring btw). I bought the HST 147's because my Shadow seems to prefer the heaver rounds. I should say, at least she didn't like the 124gr HydraShoks that I put through her at all... while 147gr Remington JHP's fed without any problem. 

Now, as for the 147gr HST +P rounds, they were FLAWLESS in function. I don't know how much the DPM comes into play, I didn't want to shoot +P ammo with the 11lb recoil spring that I use with normal practice ammo. With the +P rounds and the DPM system the Shadow's slide functions exactly the way I feel it was meant to function when used as a military side arm. Fast, crisp, smooth and no problems with recoil at all. With the 115gr remington RN I normally use at the range the slide feels a little "sluggish". With the +P everything felt "right", "perfect", the Shadow came alive, almost like it had been sleeping. But now, with the HST 147 +P rounds the sleeping giant has been awoken.

I'm glad I bought a case of the HST ammo. The remaining 300 rounds I'll keep as my HD and/or SHTF ammo. Which kinda sucks because these rounds are a ton of fun to shoot. Besides what I have already mentioned above, they are ACCURATE! Also, the Shadow absolutely loved these and will eat them up and spit them out as fast as you can pull the trigger. I didn't have anyone to time me but I'd venture to say that a 19 round clip can be emptied in less then three seconds easy. I know, I'd never waste ammo like that in a "real fight", I only rapid fire to test how reliable a round is in the gun (and because it's fun as hell). If they are able to feed flawlessly at that speed, then they will be just about 100% in a real life situation. If I had the disposable income I would use at least a box of these every time I hit the range.
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