Author Topic: .40 super and .357 sig  (Read 4403 times)

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Emegbers

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.40 super and .357 sig
« on: October 26, 2008, 01:30:03 AM »
Does anyone here have any experience with .40 super or .357 sig rounds? I'm thinking of getting a barrel in each of them for some of my guns but I don't know if I want to spend that much just to see how they do.

Offline Rod Slinger

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 02:15:43 AM »
Emegbers....I can't help you on a 40 super, completely unknown to me.  I can comment on the 357 Sig, a round I like a lot. 
Pluses: for the 357 Sig.  Hard hitting, flat shooting.  Comes into its own in barrels of 5" or more.  Makes a very good self defense load. 
Negatives:  Ammo more costly than most.  Bottle neck case more difficult to reload, magazine OAL limits the bullets that can be used,

The round would have been better if they had used true .357 size bullets instead of .355 9mm bullets. 

Well that's my thoughts, I will be interested to read other members thoughts.   R S
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.  Thomas Jefferson

Emegbers

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 02:40:30 AM »
The .40 super is something that I've only seen at DoubleTap. Basically it's a .45 case necked down to .40 slugs, and it can be fired from pretty much any .45 with just a barrel swap supposedly.

Also, I'd plan on getting all my .357 Sig and .40 super ammo from DoubleTap so supply wouldn't really be a problem.

Offline Rod Slinger

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 03:22:49 AM »
Emegbers... Thanks for the heads-up on the 40 super.  It's a good day when you learn something new.  R S
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.  Thomas Jefferson

Offline firecracker6

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 05:00:32 PM »
I can't speak for the 40 super either but I've got a little experience w/the  357 sig round.  It's a good round and the bottle neck case is supposed to make it extremely reliable --I think the Texas Rangers are very fond of it, which says alot.  I got rid of mine though because it was kind of a hassle for me to reload.  You've got to be pretty careful with the seating depth of the bullets; usually I had to seat the bullets very deep.  As  matter of fact I seem to remember there alot of bullets you can't use as seating the bullets to the proper depth will actually put the round down into the case; I seem to recall that this cartridge is pretty much limited to conical bullets.  I also had to be sure to crimp the the bullets very well or the bullets would set back.  I finally decided that loading a bullet to go 100 fps or so faster than a 9mm wasn't worth the exta hassle.  I seem to remember that reloading stuff (dies and so forth) was more expensive too; maybe I'm wrong about that.  It is a good cartridge though and I'll never say it isn't.

Emegbers

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 05:58:31 PM »
Yeah I don't plan on reloading myself, it would be more of a novelty and defense round. I'm not as concerned with velocity as I am with energy. From DoubleTap their charts show both rounds as having completely ludicrous muzzle energy. Of course, even the .40 and .45 from DoubleTap are faster and hitting harder than anything available in stores that I've seen.

Offline firecracker6

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 06:13:29 PM »
It'll make an excellent cartridge for you then.

Offline jwc007

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 01:19:08 AM »
Basically it's a .45 case necked down to .40 slugs, and it can be fired from pretty much any .45 with just a barrel swap supposedly.

That .40 Super sounds like the late .400 Corbon (.45 ACP case necked down to .40). 
The .400 Corbon was a joint effort between Dillon And Corbon, quite a long time ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.400_Corbon

As it turns out the .40 Super, while similar to the .400 Corbon, actually operates at higher Pressures, and uses small pistol primers. The brass is thicker.  As to whether it survives will be determined by the market.

For detailed info, see:  http://www.jrwhipple.com/guns/40super.html

Yeah I don't plan on reloading myself, it would be more of a novelty and defense round.

In that case, you might want to lay in a good supply!  However, you might consider taking up some handloading, at least for practice rounds.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 01:41:33 AM by jwc007 »
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline twoguns

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 08:08:09 PM »
Howdy folks,

As some others have mentioned, I have no experience with the .40 Super, but do have considerable experience with the 357 Sig round.  It is currently my chosen caliber for self-defense.

I possess several 357 Sig barrels that allow me to fire the round in various pistols, and my experience has been totally positive with each pistol fired in this caliber.  I personally find the felt recoil of the 357 Sig to be less than what I get when firing a .40 S&W.  I have some medical issues which can prevent me from firing the number of rounds in a range session that I once could.  I can easily fire twice if not more of the 357 Sig rounds than I can if using the .40 S&W.  That fact, coupled with its performance and street rep, are real pluses for me personally.

I have been reloading the 357 Sig now for about 3 years, and have never had the first issue/problem doing so.  But in fairness I should state that I have been reloading now for 3.5 decades.  I heard all the issues I would experience in reloading the 357 Sig because it was a bottlenecked case, and to date have personally experienced NONE of them.  We are human after all, and it is natural for folks to pick their preferred caliber.  Someone who simply favors the .40 S&W for example, is quick to find and repeat all the negatives associated with reloading the 357 Sig. 

On other forums I belong to, I have sent pms to members who have stated how difficult the 357 Sig is for them to reload.  When they answered my offer to provide them with some assistance, more times than not they admit they have never tried to reload it, but everyone said it would be hard, so they avoided even making the effort. 

If anyone is trying to load the 357 Sig and having issues, please feel free to pm me if you would like, and I will do my best to help you resolve those issues.  I am sure no expert, but I will gladly offer the tricks I use with good success with this caliber.

I think the fact it uses a bottlenecked case may help it function so reliably as well.  I have never had a functioning issue of any type with any platform I have personally fired in 357 Sig, and that includes 3 different brands of pistols now.  I also will note that Accurate Arms (Western Powder) in their reloading manual state this is the most consistent handgun round they have ever worked with.  That is also an impressive statement to me too.

More and more I see where a new law enforcement agency has made the transition over to the 357 Sig as their carry round.  Ballistically it was intended to closely duplicate the performance of a 125 grain JHP .357 mag fired from a 4" revolver.  To me personally, there is a lot to be said for a pistol round that can do that.

Among federal agencies, I can offer that both the US Secret Service and Air Marshals have selected this caliber as their current duty round.  This trend is also growing among various state and local agencies too.  As was noted, Texas DPS uses this as their duty round now too, with several other large and small agencies make the switch as well.

From the information I have received from folks I personally know in some of those agencies, the street performance of this round to date has been very impressive.  That is another reason that I have chosen to use this caliber now as my self-defense caliber.

My personal choice in duty loads is the 125 grain Speer Gold Dot HP load, which lists a MV of 1350.  In doing chrony work with various factory loads (Speer and several others) and with my test reloads using HP projectiles, I have to date found factory stated figures to be extremely accurate, and even low at times.  I also have no problems safetly duplicating factory MV with my reloads.

I hope this will answer some of your questions, at least where the 357 Sig caliber is concerned.  I am a major fan of this caliber.  But that said, I think there is simply no one "magic bullet".  Most calibers from 9mm up (in my opinion) will do their job properly if I put the round where it should be.  But for those who have held off trying to reload the 357 Sig based on all of the issues/problems you have read exist, I would suggest you give it a try.  I think you will be as please with your resulting rounds as I am.

twoguns

Offline twoguns

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Re: .40 super and .357 sig
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2008, 12:23:07 AM »
Howdy folks,

In the interest of safety for any members who make the decision to start loading the 357 Sig, I simply wanted to offer a suggestion on brass to use.

I do understand it can be mighty tempting for anyone who has a good supply of either 40 S&W or 10mm brass on hand, to decide the simple solution is simply to reform them into 357 Sig cases.  Whether this is possible comes up with some frequency on reloading forums.

The best answer I can offer to anyone is to use only 357 Sig brass to load this caliber.  It is a high end load, even is using mild loads.  It is also listed at 5,000 psi higher than the 40 S&W round.

When you look at the brass specs in a reloading manual, you will find that the 357 Sig case is slightly longer than the 40 S&W brass.  So is you use 40 to resize to 357 Sig, you will start off with a case that is shorter.  Since this is a higher pressure caliber, doing so could well cause some pressure issues.

Even using 10mm brass, which is long enough it could be formed to the correct specs lenght-wise for the 357 Sig case is NOT a viable solution, in my opinion.  This is also supported by most reloading manuals I own too, as they warn against this practice.  The 357 Sig uses a small pistol primer, while the 10mm uses a large pistol primer.  Since all commerical reloading data is compiled using small pistol primers, you would basically be "flying blind" if you were using large primers in reformed 10mm brass.

Components for reloading the 357 Sig are available now, including a variety of brands of either new factory brass from several companies, and even once-fired brass can be found at times as well.  So I strongly suggest folks starting to load the 357 Sig resist the urge to cut some corners by reforming other brass for this round.

I have posted similar comments on other sites I belong to.  But when I read a comment today on another thread that the 357 Sig was simply a 40 S&W necked down, I decided in the interest of reloading safety, I would post something here as well.

Hope this is helpful to folks who are considering starting to load this round.  As if you are like I was initially - hearing that reloading this bottlenecked case would be a major headache - I suggest you give it a try and decide on your own.  I heard I would have nothing but problems reloading this round, and to date, I have not encountered the first issue with several thousand rounds already reloaded.

twoguns

 

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