Author Topic: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?  (Read 15628 times)

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Offline Wobbly

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2011, 04:20:00 PM »
Its been hailing all morning, so I didnt get to hit the range today.

Well, there's a big problems right there. I just got a sun tan shooting 600 pistol rounds and 2 rounds of skeet. It's 72F here with bright sun.

Put your location on the list of things to fix.  ;D
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Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2011, 10:32:31 PM »
quick update


Lowered my powder charge to 4.1 grains, I had 2 blow outs this time out of 200ish rounds. Added a taper crimp to my setup, so Im really clueless on whats going on now : /

Offline Wobbly

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2011, 08:35:05 AM »
Well it's hard to help you since you're not giving us much information to run on. Lee makes 2 taper dies, the one I suggested (a plain taper crimp) and the Factory Taper Crimp die. Which one did you buy? What are the finished measurements at the case mouth?

You say you've never had this issue with 45ACP, but you're forgetting that 45ACP is very nearly a straight wall cartridge. If the cartridge will even enter the chamber, then you're usually good to go. So with 45ACP dumb luck will enable you. You can be as dumb as a hammer and still get it right.

No so with the 9x19, which is highly tapered. When you insert a tapered object into a tapered hole the fit has to be perfect over the entire length. There can be no guessing, messing around, and "dumb luck" is right out the window. So this cartridge is a whole new dance. You've go to learn to work with a very high level of finesses, and measurements in distances 1/3 of the diameter of a human hair make all the difference in the world.

 ;)
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Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2011, 09:17:24 PM »
I have the seating die + taper crimp, which was what I used with my last set of loads. I also ordered up a factory crimp die which I will be getting In the next few days.

What info do you need, Ill get it this weekend.

Offline himurax13

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2011, 09:23:06 PM »
Wow, I would like to know what is going on here. I have used several pounds of WIN 231 and I never had any of the problems you are describing. All of my brass are range pickups. Are you using a chamber checker? What are you using to weigh your charges?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 09:27:20 PM by himurax13 »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2011, 09:40:40 PM »
I have the seating die + taper crimp, which was what I used with my last set of loads.
A week ago it was a seating + roll crimp die. So which is it?


I also ordered up a factory crimp die which I will be getting In the next few days.
The FCD is mainly intended for those shooting lead bullets. You started out talking about plated bullets. Are we still discussing the use of plated bullets?


What info do you need, Ill get it this weekend.
Well friend, I as go back over this thread I see 5 or 6 questions already asked and no answers.
? Start with listing ALL the components.
? Tell us about your scale make and model
? Tell where you got your load information
? Tell us your OAL
? Tell us the dimensions of the finished cartridge case diameter as measured at the mouth of the case
? Provide a photo if possible

That will get you started.  ;)
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2011, 09:51:30 PM »
It was a couple weeks ago roll + seat : )

It changed to the newer taper + seat. I ordered another factory crimp die since a buddy from the range has good luck with them.

Components are (which I also listed all of this earlier : )
Win 231 ( lowered charge to 4.1g from 4.3 )
range pickup brass / once fired mix
Berrys 124g Round nose flat based
OAL of 1.14
winchester small pistol primers
Case mouth is measured at .377

Load data is from Winchesters website, Lees reloading manual and cross checked with about 5 diff websites and other shooters pet loads.

Scale is a Redding Beam scale to check the last 50 charges.


And why would I want to change my location, Im in beatiful Northern California : )
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 09:53:57 PM by zfields »

Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2011, 10:00:41 PM »



Offline 1SOW

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2011, 10:22:58 PM »
Well, I apologize if I'm a dummy, but:

Is this the die set you have:   http://leeprecision.com/xcart/3-DIE-SET-9MM-LUGER-CARB.html

The Lee 9mm Luger "Carb"ine , 3-die ' steel' set, shows NO crimp die of either kind.

The other 3 die set doesn't list 9mm Luger (only Makarov)

The 9mm Luger 4-die 'carbide' set has Both crimp dies  (Bullet seating and crimp & FCD).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:29:31 PM by 1SOW »

Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2011, 10:27:05 PM »
When you dig into the directions, the newer lee Seating die does a taper crimp on the first 1/4 of a turn or so onto the cartrige. The older is ROLL crimp only.

The 4 peice die set included the factory crimp die.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2011, 10:31:49 PM »
Thanks,  What was throwing me was the "carbine" aspect. 

I use the FCD and swear by it (NOT because of it ;D .)

Offline Wobbly

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2011, 10:36:54 PM »
And when you remove the barrel from the gun and drop a round into the naked barrel's chamber, what happens?

More photos please.
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Offline 1SOW

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2011, 10:45:31 PM »
  On two or three of those cases, I don't see the common 'coke-bottle' shape my 9mm reloads have.

It may be the pics or my old eyes, but normally the base of the bullet is visible as a bulge in the case, the case narrows below that and then widens again at the bottom of the case.  'Range pick-ups' usually won't show this shape until resized,  and the bullet is seated with a .377/.378 ish case mouth taper crimp.

That 1050'/sec speed you got is virtually the same as I got with a Win 124 FMJ over 4.3gr 231 at 1.12".

I'm waiting for your answer to Mr. Wobbly1's question.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 10:56:50 PM by 1SOW »

Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2011, 10:51:58 PM »
It isnt knoticeable in the pictures, you can deffintly feel the bottom of the bullet bulging the case. Sorry, I dont have a macro lens for my DSLR, im having to stand a few feet back and zoom in : /

Offline zfields

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Re: cz 75 sa 9mm WIN 231 load data?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2011, 10:53:40 PM »








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