75B Failure to Feed S&B - REVISITED

[SinglePoint]

Hello all.  Before today I had put 600 rounds through a new 75B without any failures whatsoever.  Have been shooting Win White Box, Federal Champion, Blazer Brass, and Rem UMC.  Ran fine with all of them, but liked the UMC the best for accuracy.  All 115 grain FMJ.  I recently found a great deal on the Sellier & Bellot 115 gr FMj, so I picked some up and took 100 rounds to the range.  Definitely hotter.  After The first mag of 10 (I am in CA) I was thinking that this European pistol must have been made with European rounds in mind, because That mag of S&B has been the most accurate to date and true to the point of aim.  However, as I ran through the the two boxes I had 5 failures to feed.  In each case the round was laying flat at the bottom of the ramp with the slide hung open.  Some hand pressure was required to close the slide into battery and feed the round.  It still has the factory springs.   Any comments or ideas?  Thanks.

[1SOW]

Any comments or ideas?  Thanks.

SinglePoint, Welcome to the forum.

So after a round fired AND ejected the next round didn't feed?
If it happened to me, I would think : 600 rds with zero failures, I changed ammo and had 5% failure to feed.
Either the pistol changed ( maybe needed cleaning/oiling (?), did it only FTF out of one specific magazine or both?) or there was something about the ammo that the pistol didn't like.
Without doing any thing to change the pistol, I would shoot some of the other ammo you were using and see if it still has failures to feed, be sure to note which mag(s) FTF.  If it doesn't FTF then I would suspect the ammo itself. 
If it's the ammo you suspect, remove the bbl and drop rounds of the S&B into the chamber.  They should easily drop ALL the way in to seat on the case-mouth with a metallic sound.  Press on them lightly and make sure they are ALL the way into the chamber and then they should fall out of the chamber when you turn it over.

Some  other members may have more ideas.  The more info you can give us, the better chance of finding/solving the problem.

Hope this helps.
 

[m39nut]

I had a similar problem with my new 75BD, although it seemed to work better with S&B, but on several rounds I had to occasionally tap the back of the slide to make it go into battery, particularly with UMC. I put a 15lb Wolf recoil spring and my problems completely disappeared. Of course I will be more than happy to take that pesky S&B ammo from you.

[RustedinKY]

No problems with S&B in my 75B. In fact it is my favorite round. It does feel hotter than WWB, Federal or UMC, but I feel I am every bit as accurate, if not more, with S&B.

[SinglePoint]

Thank you for the replies to date.  1SOW, the pistol was clean, nothing on the pistol changed, and yes, all rounds were ejected prior to the FTF.  As m39nut mentioned, a bit of pressure or tap on the back to the slide did chamber the rounds.  I only get to shoot once every two weeks, so I will try a variety of rounds on my next trip, including some more of the S&B.  I will pay closer attention to what is going on and keep track of which mag(s) its happening with.  I will also check that the chamber is not too tight for the S&B.  I am now wondering if it could have been caused by a lazy wrist/grip,,since I had been accustomed to shooting std (low) pressure stuff?  I will pay more attention to my grip as well.  Finally, a 15lb spring?  Might try that also, if I continue to have problems.  Is the stock spring a 14lb?  Thanks again. 

[m39nut]

The stock spring is a 14lb but I have read that sometimes the factory springs are a little on the light side. It could be a little bit of a limp wrist but unless you changed your grip then after 600 rounds I think it should be better, not worse as the pistol breaks itself in. The good news is that the 15lb spring is cheap and available from both Wolf and CZ Custom. Also if your pistol is new you can always call CZ-USA and they'll fix you up. Your ammo should be OK as S&B is what the factory tests all of their guns with.

[SinglePoint]

Recap of problem: New 75B; first 600 rounds of std pressure without any malfunctions; next 100 were hotter S&B and had five FTFs.

Went back to the range with 50 rounds each of Federal C, Blazer Brass, and more S&B.  Had three FTFs -- two S&B and one w/Blazer.  In each case the unfed round was laying flat (rather than angled upward) at the bottom of the feed ramp and a little bump on the receiver fed them all.  Also, I did notice that about another four or more rounds "almost" failed to feed.  As the rounds were stripped from the mag there was a delay of a fraction of a second before each of them were chambered --a noticeable fraction.  This is a dangerous condition as the delay allowed the trigger to reset and then the forward momentum of the slide actually could cause the pistol to move forward just enough for the round to be fired unintentionally.  One did fire on me and I was then aware of that potential issue and reacted against that happening again in the subsequent cases.

After the first 600 rounds I thought this CZ was going to be very reliable and a pleasure to shoot, but I am disappointed with these problems now surfacing.

Based on my experiences, your replies so far, other threads on this and other forums, and reviews I've read (all on the Internet), below are the reasons I believe for the FTFs and my "delayed-feeds":

1.   It has been stated/written that the stock recoil spring has less effective power than 14lbs.  Maybe more like 10-12 lbs.  I believe the pistol is now broken in and as part of that process the springs have set.  All of the rounds I tested went easily into and out of the chamber (with the barrel removed).  I believe the recoil spring does not have sufficient power to always strip and chamber a round.  At first it may have, but not now.  Further evidence of this is that it is now easier to manually cycle the slide compared to when it was new.

2.   Others have noted a similar problem being rectified after changing to +5% or +10% mag springs.  My last three FTFs were split 2 to 1 betwen two different mags.  Close visual inspection reveals no issue with either mag (including the followers and guides/lips).  My problem is not with the mags.

3.   Upon close inspection of unfired rounds, the S&B do appear to be very slightly longer and just a bit rounder than the the Blazers, Federals, and WWB (did not compare UMC).  The S&Bs also have a jacket that looks more like brass-color that copper, so maybe they are of a different composition.  Whatever it is about them, they do not feed as well with the stock (underpowered?) recoil spring compared to the other rounds I tested.  As stated, I only experienced one FTF with a round other than S&B.  The S&Bs were relatively accurate --8 out of 10 in a 2.2 inch circle at 20 feet.

I really like my CZ 75B, but it must be 100% reliable (in addition to a range shooter, it was to be my HD weapon), so I plan to purchase and install an extra recoil spring and some extra power mag springs from Wolff.  I am also picking up a 17lb. main spring while I am at it.  Placed an order with Wolff over a week ago and it has not yet shipped.  If they are  unable to get it out within the next few days I will call to cancel the order and try elsewhere.

That is it.  Any additional comments or suggestions are welcome.  Thanks again.  Jim

[75Plus]

I have read and reread this post and have not found any mention of the feed ramp. The first thing I do with a new CZ is to polish the ramp to a mirror finish. I have NEVER had a FTF on any that has been polished.

Installing a heavier recoil spring may solve the FTF problem but could cause others.
Joe

[pentosinjunkie]

Hmm.  I put about 50 rounds of Winchester Ranger Bonded 124gr+P through my brand-new NS CZ75B safety model yesterday without one single hiccup.

[kobus]

my p-07 and 75b seems to be ok with +p.  S&B, Magtech and others in JHP and FMJ. both with stock standard factory springs and no mods.

polishing the ramp should be the first step and a heavier spring could also help to remedy the problem.

[ninjab]

what do you guys use to polish the feed ramp?

I just ran into the same problem today with ftf. 900 rounds with 0 failures before today, then multiple ftf today. Too many new variables today to know exactly why, I had just changed the mainspring to 15# and recoil to 11#. Changed the recoil back to stock middle of day and continued to have ftf. I shot 150 rem umc (first time shooting this) and 150 blazer brass, I believe all failures were with the remmington ammo. When it failured I could sometimes not even get it to go into battery even with a heavy push on the slide, it seemed the round was still at an angle and not able to feed.

I'm assuming my failures are specific to this umc ammo, which had actually been sitting in the barn all summer (not my ammo), maybe that has something to do with it or the gun just doesn't like remmington.

[SinglePoint]

Thanks again for the suggestions and info, please keep it coming.  This last week I used a dremel w/Divine Dico polishing compound on a small felt/cotton wheel to polish the feed ramp to a nice shiny finish  --definitely slick.  Also, the extra power mag springs and extra power recoil spring came in the mail.  I put an extra power mag spring in the mag that was giving me the most FTFs for testing purposes and left the other alone.  I did not install the new recoil spring.  That new spring was too long and caused the slide to bind.  I could not cycle it by hand at all.  So, I have compressed the recoil spring on a rod and will leave it that way for two days and then try again.

I took the 75b with the polished feed ramp and one mag with extra power spring to the range with 50 rounds of S&B and 50 rounds of Blazer Brass.  First two mags ran fine and then the FTFs started again.  Both mags again, but mainly the one with the extra power spring.  Mainly S&B again, but one Blazer too --had four FTFs and stopped counting, but there were a few more after that. 

So, for my 75B, I do not believe it is the feed ramp or the mag springs.  I hope I can install the Wolff 15 lb. recoil sping after it sets a little shorter, because I am running out of ideas.  I could try more or different lube, but I am not very optimistic that would solve the problem.  Anything else?  This is very frustrating.  I am going to call CZ-USA on Monday.  Ninjab, for you, I hope it is the UMC, but in my case I cannot say its the ammo because the blazer ran fine in the past.  The S&B is problematic though. 

Thanks again for any ideas and all your posts.  Jim

[SinglePoint]

After polishing the feed ramp and intsalling an extra power mag spring did not fix the ~5% FTF issue, I changed out the stock recoil spring for a 15 lb. Wolff spring and went to the range today.  Went through 50 rounds of S&B and 50 rounds of Blazer Brass without any failures.  Maybe too early to claim victory, but definitely a good sign. 

It ran well ,without a hiccup, and shot/felt like it did for the first 600 rounds --solid and smooth.  So, my experience could help confirm that the CZ75 could be undersprung.  I put in the 15 lb. spring, but feel like I could easily go to 16 lbs. without an issue, based how how it shoots with the current (15 lb.) spring.  I'll put another couple hundred rounds through it and if it continues to run like today, I'll pick up a couple of extra extra-power recoil springs --a 15 lb. for sure and will probably try a 16 lb. as well.

As noted by others, the Wolff spring was too long and caused the slide to bind (could not cycle the slide at all), but after leaving it compressed on a rod for 48 hours, it went in and operated fine --installed easily, does not bow up, and runs smooth.

[ninjab]

Glad to hear she is running fine again, mine hasn't had any problems since running out of those old umc rounds I borrowed.

[kobus]

good for you.  i am glad you got it sorted.     a good gun like 75b should'nt have problems.