pre B vs. brand new

[BTE]

I have been seeing on the auction sites (gunbroker, auction arms, etc.) quite a few retired police issue CZ 75's from the late 80's-early 90's.  It got me thinking, this might be a great way to get into the gun hobby, buying something older and cheaper and working on it to restore/customize it.  Or is it better to start with something brand new? 
I would feel more comfortable disassembling a used gun to modify or fix than a new one, plus it would give an opportunity to learn about the gun in depth.
So is there any huge downsides to owning one of these as my first gun?  Anything to watch out for?  Or will I be better off playing it safe and going brand new?

[Stuart]

the older guns will not accept the newer CZ 16rnd/MecGar 16rnd mags and the MecGar AFC magazines.
they can be modified to accept the CZ 16rnd/MecGar 16rnd mags though. pretty straightforward and easy to do modification.

the sights are small, but the slide can be modified for new sights.

those are the two major deficiencies of the older guns I can think of. Other than that they are guns and clean up nicely.
I am very happy with the one  have, and am getting ready to mill sights into my gun.

[bozwell]

If you're looking to try some of the custom work yourself, I would recommend a stock 75B in black polycoat as your first tinkerin' gun.  These are an incredible value for how fantastic they are and with some polishing and a few extra parts, you can turn this $400 and change gun into an absolutely fantastic gun.  Don't start with a Shadow or anything that pricy, but a standard black polycoat 75B is quite a bargain.

I would save the retired/historic guns for subsequent projects.  To give you some perspective, I have a CZ 82 I'm working on that is giving me all kinds of problems - not because I can't figure out how to take it apart but because one of the takedown pins is stuck like glue.  I'm very comfortable breaking down a 75B these days and polishing all the relevant surfaces, but yet here I am defeated by a stupid pin on my CZ 82.        Anyways, point being you're more likely to see other issues like this with the older guns and they just make the work that much more difficult. 

I would get yourself a 75B in black polycoat, along with some stones and/or high grit sandpaper, and your favorite polishing compound.  Oh, and I've found a dremel can be very valuable as well.  I try to avoid using the dremel more than is necessary, but I do use mine to take the finish off the trigger bar and also to grind a bit of an indentation in the pins in the hammer.  Those suckers are in there tight and having a bit of an indentation helps your punch to stay on target. 

The first time you fully break it down and take that sear cage apart, you will have enough on your plate to worry about.  I see no reason to introduce potential other issues by buying a used gun as a starter.  Just my $0.02. 

[Stuart]

very true what Bozwell posted.
Know someone that found an older 75B for less than $400 with mags. if you shop around you can find good deals and you don't have to deal with the magazine issue and sights are available for the dovetails without milling.

worth the time to look around for a "B" model gun.

[bozwell]

I definitely think the pre-B's are neat guns and I expect I'll probably get one at some point down the road.  That said, as your first gun though, I'd keep it simple.  It's confusing and nerve-wracking enough when you're learning the firearm and you break that sear cage apart for the first time (especially the decocker one).  Take your time, study all the wonderful resources on this forum and have fun with it.   

[bprice01]

I'd get a pre-b for <$300 and shoot the heck out of it. Then re-finish it, modify it, do whatever you want to it.

[myles]

I second Boswell and Stuart point of view.  Get a used B model.  Less than $100 difference avoids the mag issues and you'll have aftermarket sight options that don't require milling.  My "learner" cz for home gunsmithing is an 85B I picked up in LGS for $390.  Not a mark on it.

It now sports Dawson front and tactical rear sights, cz coco snakeskin grips, shadow hammer, extended firing pin, XP extractor spring, lightened FP and FPB springs, 8.5 lb mainspring and 11 lb recoil spring, and an extensive internal polish.  (Internals courtesy of Cajungunworks, thank you!).  Total investment is about $300 and time. NO refinishing required.  And it uses Mecgar mags that are half the cost of factory ones and come with better springs.

Unless you absolutely must, don't start with a decocker.  First time reassembly of the ejector block separates the patient from the angry.

[bozwell]

I'll second that.  The CZ I broke down fully (including the sear cage) was my Phantom.  This was tough going and although it turned out well, the hammer installation ended up being a 8 hour job, haha.  If I had been able to use the slave pin correctly I could have avoided taking the sear assembly apart... but I digress.  I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread but zip lock baggies are your friend in this process.  Use them to contain the parts during disassembly as much as possible (I even would recommend disassembly the sear cage inside of a baggie to keep the springs from flying off).  You want to try and avoid crawling around on the floor with a flashlight searching for a FPB lifter spring if at all possible (like I had to do that first night... three times  ).

I recently found a CZ75B Limited Edition for sale and spent some time overhauling it.  I will say that it's much simpler to put the sear assembly back together in the manual safety guns (it probably helps that I've done it once before too).  I disabled the FPB lifter in mine, effectively turning it into a spacer, so really it's only a matter of getting the sear and spring lined up correctly.  Overall, I found reassembly of this gun to be much faster than the first time I tried to reassemble my Phantom.

Oh, and if you can find a used one in great shape like Myles did, all the better.    Good luck with whatever you choose and do keep us posted on how the project goes.

[BTE]

Thanks for the replies, so much great insight here! 
I like the idea of getting a used 75B, it's kind of the best of both worlds.  I am slowly narrowing my options down and my goal is to make my purchase before the end of the year.
Even though I didn't understand half of the gun internals you referred to, I look forward to learning all I can once own one.

[myles]

Good luck and have fun.  What I learned about the pistol was well worth the time.

Don't do anything more than changing grips, mainspring and recoil spring before having a decent vise and smooth aluminum or brass jaw pads.  You can find information about punches and other tools on this site. 

Best wishes!

[BTE]

As far as pre-B's go, areen't there two versions?  With one being a mix of the early 75's with some features of the B model?  Would something like that be a good option?

[Brian Ahearn]

I did three of these early style pistols as website examples for my firearms refinishing business 2 75B,s and a early 85B. I replaced the following parts on all three recoil and firing pin springs, added custom grips and rounded combat hammers. Had to refit the safety on one due to fit issue  to new hammer. Best thing about buying them used was the triggers were all worn in no grit they are almost as nice as the triggers on my Cz custom shop pistols. The completed pistols are cerakoted . The cost of the pistols used was $289.00 for the 75B's and $339.00 for the 85B. Add in parts only and you have $530 to $600 in the pistols,add the cerakote  and that brings you up to $730 to $800 dollars. In this economy you would not be able to sell them for that, I have mine priced for sale on my website for $530.00 which is a loss. If you like to do projects go for it if you do all the work including refinishing its reasonable and you enjoy doing it. I ended up with 3 fantastic shooters and I will never sell the 85B ,I really don't mind keeping the 75B's either  and we still shoot them every weekend. They served their purpose and brought in more business so I am happy and will continue enjoying them. By the way you can add XS big dot sights or some others  and up grade the sights I just did that to My 82 pics are in the 82/83 section. Remember if you are doing it to save money over the cost of a new that won't happen ,but if you like projects  go for it you won't regret it. P.S. I bought all my used ones from Robertson's Trading On Guns America.  Take Care, Brian

[myles]

Brian,

I took a look at your two 75s.  Notably, the one with the squared trigger guard has a dovetailed front sight like a B model.  Was the reae dovetail on this gun to B dimensions?  Does it take B model magazines without modification?
 

[Brian Ahearn]

yes the one takes the 16 round mags no problem the is the one with the squared guard the other requires the older style  mag or you have to modiy the newer mag. Both are fantastic shooters, the 85 b is on the website some where to but like I said it's not fore sale. The Black and silver one shoots the tightest groups out of the three ,in fact they are on par with my cz custom pistols from Angus's shop ,with the sad part being that they cost me half of what I payed for my custom shop pistols, These three pistols totally changed my thoughts about surplus /used pistol which led me to pick up 2 used sigs that turned out to be great shooters a P6 and a P220. I am currenly looking at used 97B thats what I will probably pick up next.

[bandw14]

Most everyone has suggested a used 75B.  Why not a new  one? Are the older ones better in some way?  I've been looking at new 75B's, so I hope someone can clear this up for me.