Help with 9mm Minor Load Data for Lead Bullets & Titegroup

[Pensfan]

The same formula Mr.W uses for for tweaking the length works (4/1.169 = x/1.10). The starting load would be 3.76 gr...I'd round down to 3.7. Since the load range is .7 gr the new max would 4.4.

You'd need to chrono your loads to determine if you were getting the desired results.

Thanks for that formula as well!  That helps tremendously..  I have all my load data in an excel spreadsheet so it will be easy to factor that in as well. 

I am taking my chrono with me today as well.  I have some factory ammo and AA&A ammo that I am fairly confident of the chrono numbers on so I can verify the chrono works before putting these reloads through it as well.

Hope to have a report soon!

[painter]

The 1.18 number means nothing. That round won't fit in your mag.

1.169 is the SAAMI max and you really can't load longer and expect that your rounds fit in the magazine.

My CZ shoots very well with round nose ammo at 1.14 or 1.15.

[recoilguy]

Painter beat me to it but to afirm his statement 1.18 is not and option. 1.169 is the longest that will fit the mag and is the max SAAMI spec.

I have settled on 1.123 for my CZ's....why i like the way it shoots feeds and it is easy to remember. Good luck with your trials, enjoy the time. I remember my first loads, that was a lots of loads ago. I hope you enjoy this as much as I do. Good luck and happy shooting.

RCG

[Wobbly]

The 1.18 number means nothing. That round won't fit in your mag.

1.169 is the SAAMI max and you really can't load longer and expect that your rounds fit in the magazine.

My CZ shoots very well with round nose ammo at 1.140 or 1.150".

1.169" is the SAAMI max, which is fine in theory. However, if the front of your mag is not perfectly flat and smooth then the sharp corners of HP ammo might get caught on the inside of the mag and refuse to feed upward. I find it much more useful and realistic to load at 1.150". That way if my ammo runs .009" long (1.159"), then I still have plenty of wiggle room inside the mag.

In truth, only the 135gr and 147gr get that far out.

 

[Pensfan]

The weather held out and I got to fire off my first 30 rounds of reloads!  I have to admit...  it was really dang cool to be shooting my own ammo.  Thank you so much to everyone that helped with my endless questions.  The first trigger pull I was shaking and had a hard time keeping the sights on target, haha.  Overall though I learned a TON with these 30 rounds... easily more than I have ever learned in any other 30 rounds downrange.

So the report:  April 27, 2012, Friday afternoon, 1:30 pm CST, partially cloudy / overcast, outdoors, 62 degrees.  All rounds fired freestyle from 9yds range to target with ProChrono Digital in line of fire approximately 4yds from muzzle. 

Atlanta Arms & Ammo: 147gr FMJ RN, 1.15" OAL
 ~ Used these as a baseline both through the chrono and for group on the target to compare the reloads.
 ~ Two 5rd Strings, 1.62" Group
 ~ High Vel = 906; Low Vel = 877; Ave Velocity = 890; PF = 130.83


Batch 1: 124gr LRN, WSF 3.6gr, 1.10" OAL
 ~ Only shot eight rounds as two failed to throw the slide into battery due to soft recoil.
 ~ One 8rd String, 1.44" Group with 1 flyer.  1.20" without flyer
 ~ High Vel = 916; Low Vel = 847; Ave Velocity = 882; PF = 109.37

Batch 2: 124gr LRN, WSF 3.8gr, 1.10" OAL
 ~ Extremely accurate round...  if the PF wasn't so low it would warrant more testing.  Too bad, haha
 ~ One 10rd String, 0.97" Group
 ~ High Vel = 981; Low Vel = 909; Ave Velocity = 947; PF = 117.43

Batch 3: 124gr LRN, WSF 4.0gr, 1.10" OAL
 ~ Smooth action and recoil, however one round failed to throw the slide into battery due to soft recoil.  Accuracy dropped a bit from the previous load.  This load is still too light considering PF and failing to run slide into battery.
 ~ One 10rd String, 1.49" Group
 ~ High Vel = 1047; Low Vel = 993; Ave Velocity = 1013; PF = 125.61


Looks like I need to bump the powder charge to 4.2gr and test 10 rounds, then crank out a hundred or so and do more extensive testing.  I think I am on the way there though!

[jwc007]

Sweet!  Looks like you had a good day at the Range with your loads and I like proper approach you are taking in developing your loads. 

Hope the 4.2 grains of WSF loading works out!

[Wobbly]

So the report:  April 27, 2012, Friday afternoon, 1:30 pm CST, partially cloudy / overcast, outdoors, 62 degrees.  All rounds fired freestyle from 9yds range to target with ProChrono Digital in line of fire approximately 4yds from muzzle. 

Opps. My Bad. 

Do over. It has to be 70 degrees.  


Congrats. You're correct. Shooting your own is a hoot. 

PS. Tell us the gun again.

[Pensfan]

Thanks guys...  it was definitely a hoot!  I loved it and can't wait to work up more loads and starting dialing in the accuracy and recoil I want.  Then I get to play with my other four powders...  and bullet weights...  and OAL....  man this is an entire hobby unto itself!  haha

I am shooting these rounds out of a CZ 75B that I use for USPSA competition.

[Wobbly]

For competition only, get a 12# and 14# spring kit from Wolfe Spring.

You'll love those with the light target loads.

[recoilguy]

The fun has begun and it appears you have a very good and realistic set of expectations. Nicely played. Keeping this type of info will be invaluable if you save it. I can't tell you how many times a friend has asked and I will say hang on a minute......oh yeah here it is......

Shooting your own ammo is a very coolthing!!!

RCG

[Pensfan]

More testing today...  with an interesting note that I didn't even think of.  I loaded up some of the 124gr Lead RNs with 4.2gr WSF like I mentioned above, and I also loaded up some 147gr with 3.5 WSF to 1.12" OAL and tested them as well. 

The unintended aspect of the test though...  it was 82 degrees today at the range, however I left from work and my ammo was in a sweltering hot car all day.  Easily over 100 degrees in the car.  When I got the range I noticed several of the rounds had blue lube melting down the nose of the bullet (they were stored nose down / primer up in retail boxes).

After inspecting the rounds, and discarding the rounds with shown lube, the rest seemed normal and I continued to document everything.

So the report: May 1, 2012, Friday afternoon, 3:00 pm CST, mostly sunny, outdoors, 82 degrees (ammo left in 100+degree car for 6 hours prior to shooting). All rounds fired sitting, two-handed grip, with sandbag from 10yds range to target with ProChrono Digital in line of fire approximately 4yds from muzzle.

Atlanta Arms & Ammo: 147gr FMJ RN, 1.15" OAL
~ Used these as a baseline both through the chrono and for group on the target to compare the reloads.
~ One 10rd String, 1.60" Group
~ High Vel = 910; Low Vel = 841; Ave Velocity = 878; Extreme Spread = 69; Standard Deviation = 19; PF = 129.07

Batch 4: 124gr LRN, WSF 4.2gr, 1.10" OAL
~ Great feeling round, little smoky but not too bad, no failures to slide into battery.
~ One 10rd String, 1.52" Group
~ High Vel = 1048; Low Vel = 1004; Ave Velocity = 1029; Extreme Spread = 44; Standard Deviation = 16; PF = 127.60

Batch 5: 147gr LRN, WSF 3.5gr, 1.12" OAL
~ Great feeling round, little smoky but not too bad, no failures to slide into battery, excellent accuracy.
~ One 10rd String, 0.90" Group
~ High Vel = 878; Low Vel = 851; Ave Velocity = 868; Extreme Spread = 27; Standard Deviation = 9; PF = 127.60

The 147s handled GREAT, I LOVE them.  They were super accurate, soft recoiling, great for watching the sights lift and return very smoothly.  Depending on how the heat affects the speed of the powder, I may need to adjust the powder charge up a grain or so after running another batch through the chrono with better controlled temps.

So the questions...  WSF is reverse temp sensitive, we know that as a fact.  However, how much will it slow down from 82deg when heated up to 100+ degrees?  Will it slow back down once cooled or is the powder damaged/slowed permanently?  I will obviously need to reload a batch with the same settings and shoot them in better controlled temps to get an accurate reading on the speed / PF.

Thanks to everyone for all the help in developing these loads.  I greatly appreciate it!

[Cheesewhiz]

This has been a interesting thread, thanks for that. I have heard that WSF is reverse temp. sensitive but I have never noticed it and have used WSF for years. It might be that I tend to load it to mid to upper regions of load data, maybe at lower powder weights it is more apparent.

[jwc007]

Very interesting results!    Thanx for posting! 

[1SOW]

Will it slow back down once cooled or is the powder damaged/slowed permanently?

No.
I've read of some puting their ammo on "ice" (maybe a cooler) before a shoot.   
If you're subject to large temp variations, you might consisder a less temp sensitive powder. 

[Wobbly]

Great shooting. Great time. Congrats!!

I can hardly wait to spend that check.