Author Topic: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's  (Read 7142 times)

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Offline FF1063

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2012, 12:09:57 PM »
Check your extractor tension. If it's too high like mine was it can prevent the breach face from fully mating with the barrel causing light strikes. The extractor is 'opened' by the little ramp to the right of the chamber. If the extractor tension is too high the recoil spring has trouble pushing the  slide back into battery.

You can check for that by slowly lowering the slide (empty gun of course) and seeing if the slide always goes into full lock up or if it stays slightly out of battery.

When I got my Kadet kit I had a lot of FTFs, maybe 15%,  and ammo type didn't seem to matter. The extractor was very stiff. Took it out, polished everything, no help, the extractor was still very hard to move. It appears the hole for my extractor spring was not drilled deep enough, so I tried cutting a few coils off of the extractor spring. - Bingo! Now my Kadet runs like a top with any ammo. I use the stock 75B main spring.


Offline gmg

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 01:09:22 PM »
I had the same thing with mine. I had to take a #15 mainspring and cut a couple of coils and it lights up all Federal Automatch ammo.

Offline justiw

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 10:04:12 PM »
Check your extractor tension. If it's too high like mine was it can prevent the breach face from fully mating with the barrel causing light strikes. The extractor is 'opened' by the little ramp to the right of the chamber. If the extractor tension is too high the recoil spring has trouble pushing the  slide back into battery.

You can check for that by slowly lowering the slide (empty gun of course) and seeing if the slide always goes into full lock up or if it stays slightly out of battery.

When I got my Kadet kit I had a lot of FTFs, maybe 15%,  and ammo type didn't seem to matter. The extractor was very stiff. Took it out, polished everything, no help, the extractor was still very hard to move. It appears the hole for my extractor spring was not drilled deep enough, so I tried cutting a few coils off of the extractor spring. - Bingo! Now my Kadet runs like a top with any ammo. I use the stock 75B main spring.

Well, I did notice that my extractor was a little tight and the slide was not mating smoothly as you described. However, I had an interesting experience performing the mods. It took a while to remove the staked pin, and a lot more pounding than I wanted, but it eventually budged. Took out the extractor and spring, and decided to try trimming off one coil. No problems yet. But putting it back together, I ruined my pin in the process causing FTE and FTfeeds. So, here are a few things to learn about this process that I should have researched before hand.

1. When removing the extractor pin, push it out with a 1/16" (1.5mm) punch. Drive it out from the top of the slide downward (sit the slide down on a piece of wood top side up). There is a groove on the bottom of the slide for the pin to be driven into as you remove it, so you don't need to have a hole in the wood. Use gradually increasing force with your hammer until it budges, and then slowly tap it through.

2. Be careful removing the extractor/spring afterward. Put your thumb over the extractor as you remove the punch that you just used to drive out the pin. That way the extractor/spring won't just fly out into the abyss that is your workshop floor.

3. Thoroughly clean the parts, and the groove where the extractor normally is. There was some of the famous CZ packing grease in there on mine. I used a cotton cleaning patch and my punch to get in there to clean it out. It was pretty dirty, but probably not enough to cause malfunctions.

4. Cut your spring as needed. Then insert the spring into the hole with your cut end facing into the slide. You want the flat spring end to contact the extractor and not your fresh cut end. Push the extractor in the groove and hold it with your thumb while you insert your punch into the extractor pin hole as a slave pin to hold everything in place.

5. Pull your punch back a little so you can get your extractor pin started in the hole on the BOTTOM of the slide. Some needle nose pliers can help, but be careful not to mar the pin too badly with the teeth of the pliers. A little marring near the end may be good to re-stake the pin, but if you mar it in the middle near where the extractor rotates on the pin it will cause issues. Be careful here!!!! Slowly PUSH (do not hammer it) the pin in from the BOTTOM of the slide until it passes through the hole in the extractor and starts to go through the top half of the pin hole. You will have to use your thumb to hold the extractor down far enough to get the pin to go through. Once the pin is inserted as far as you can PUSH it, tap it through the remainder of the way with a slightly larger punch. GO SLOWLY WITH THE HAMMER, JUST TAP IT IN UNTIL FLUSH. Too much hammer impact will peen (mushroom) or bend your pin.

6. The pin was staked from the factory, so if you have a staking tool use it. Alternatively, you can use blue lock tight to "stake" the pin, but mine does not seem to need it. The pin locked in pretty well for me, but YMMV.

Things NOT TO DO!!!!

DO NOT - Insert the pin from the top of the slide with a hammer. I think the pin hole is tapered, and the hole on the top of the slide is smaller than the hole on the bottom of the slide. The pin itself is not tapered, so there is only one correct direction to insert it (from the bottom of the slide). It may look easier to insert the pin from the top down, but DO NOT DO IT! You have been warned. This is how I ruined my pin, and I was lucky not to damage the slide in the process.

RESULTS:
When I ruined my extractor pin, the result was terrible. I should not have even tried to test it, but I did and it was terrible with about 50% failures of various forms. After I replaced the pin ($2 + shipping is a nice cheap mistake, thankfully) the results are so far equivalent to before. I still see about 5% light strikes. I have only tested about 200 rounds, so I will update if things change.

I will continue searching. Thanks all for the advice so far

Offline sammler66

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 10:42:55 AM »
I have a couple of Kadet conversion kits and have used them on a CZ75B DA/SA and on a CZ75B SA.  I had FTFs(failures to fire) with the SA using one of the kits but not the other.  I changed to a 22lb hammer spring on the SA and both kits now run flawlessly with MiniMags.  Both kits have not had FTFs when running on the DA/SA - which I believe has a 17lb spring.  Anyone have an idea that can explain this?

Offline bozwell

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 11:02:14 AM »
I'm surprised to hear about these FTF's.  I run Federals 98% reliable in my Shadow with an 11lb main spring and my CZ75b with any ammo 100% reliable (or as close as you can get to 100% with a mechanical device ;)).  I have to think either there's some kind of fit issue with the Kadet slide or something up with the firing pin (either due to gunk in the firing pin channel or structurally with the pin itself).

Offline allright

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's update
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 02:54:02 PM »
Well, I'm finding the Kadet Kit took about 1k rnds to break in well. The extractor is now running better, BUT only if the gun gets a thorough cleaning after every range trip. This helps in several ways.

I've noticed that even a small powder buildup around the chamber and any dirt in the firing pin area will cause the light strikes. The new routine is to clean the chamber area well after every 100-200 rnds to avoid having a cushion to soften the strike. The firing pin gets pulled and that area gets a thorough cleaning at about 500 rnds, and I don't use any lubricant on or around the FP. This has helped the FTFs.

Also, really cleaning the chamber itself (often) seems to go a long way in helping with the FTEs.

The latest issue (I put this in another post) I just had: I started getting key holing really bad. At 7 yd's I could barely hit the paper! I brought it in to about 3 yards, and the holes were just big tears in the paper. The problem was super major lead fouling in the barrel. I couldn't even get a cleaning rod through the barrel! After a lot of pushing, tapping, solvents, I was able to get the rod through the barrel, and out came a very shiny tube of lead about an inch long. I didn't know if this was part of the barrel or lead. Further investigation told me it was lead. I spent about and hour and a half using two different lead/copper solvents. First wet patch, let sit, another wet patch, brush about 8 times, another wet patch, a couple 'o dry patches and then inspect. I did this three times. I still had what looked like galling or more lead.

The next day, I went at it again, BUT this time I went to a brass rifle brush rather than the nylon/bronze brush I was using. I did about 3 of the routines mentioned above, and the bore is looking almost perfect.

I've been shooting mostly Remington Thunderbolts, because when the KK was brand new it seemed to work the best when compared to Federal match of the same 40grn weight. I'm now learning the Thunderbolts leave a LOT of lead in the barrel. I'm going to move to CCI Mini Mags to lighten my cleaning procedure in the future and see how this works out.

The moral of this story is: For most I've my life I've been hearing "get the lead out...."......... Now, I know why! ;)
FileMaker db developer in CA USA


Developer of FileMaker databases

Offline DenStinett

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 05:06:00 PM »
Larry:
You can run through your remaining Remington Thundrtbolt Lead Rounds buy shooting one followed by a Copper Washed / Higher End Round
The CW Round will sweep the lead down the Barrel
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline sammler66

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 06:26:00 PM »
In my case I don't think that lack of cleaning was the issue with FTFs.  I clean after every range trip and take the firing pin out and clean the channel about every 500rds also - which is usually one or two range trips.

Regarding Remington thunderbolts.....  I was given 1500rds free of charge by a friend who had nothing but trouble with them through his rifle.  I had no more FTFs with the thunderbolts than the MiniMags in my Kadet kits but I spent hours cleaning the barrel after one range trip - no fun.  I didn't have previous experience with lead fouling and initially though my barrel was failing. I didn't notice keyholing but did notice the POI change before realizing what the issue was.  I hadn't considered alternating copper coated & thunderbolts to use them up.  I still have lots of thunderbolts.  Is this just a theory or does anyone have actual experience alternating copper/lead to avoid the lead buildup?

Offline DenStinett

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2012, 06:56:52 PM »
Yes, it works
You may have to shoot two or three Copper for every one Lead Round though
It's a trial and error deal, but it does work
So tell me again how Trump was worse then the 8 years before .... AND what's coming after HIM !

Offline sammler66

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Re: New Kadet Kit and too many FTF's
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2012, 07:11:48 PM »
Yes, it works
You may have to shoot two or three Copper for every one Lead Round though
It's a trial and error deal, but it does work

thanks - I'll give it a try