How to Survive A Shooting Incident

[75Plus]

A retired LEO friend sent me this YouTube training video on how to react to a random shooting incident. May be useful information should you encounter such an incident.

Quite a number of us would add another element to the "Fight" segment though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0

Joe

[armoredman]

DHS video, better than a lot of preparedness "strategies" I've seen. At least this one says to fight back. Of course, they don't advocate being armed, because it was made for Fed civilian employees, IIRC, and noen of them are allowed to be armed. If this was someplace where the employees were armed as a matter of course, it would be different...though there was that time recently where I guy shot up a Detroit Police Substation.
Some very good info, in there, and a good over arching premise - there is exactly one Bruce Willis, and you ain't him.

[75Plus]

Just a thought on the "Fight" segment, using a fire extinguisher as a club would not be as effective as delivering a face full of dry powder or a blast of CO2.

Joe

[heavypat12]

very well constructed for a federal office setting. I just hope that we will never be put into this situation although it is happening more and more everyday.

[BlackJack10]

Ought to make federal employees think twice about taking the job in the first place.

[AdamSmith22134]

If you hear gunshots, then the first thing you immediately need to do is take cover.  Cover is defined as getting behind something that will stop a bullet flying your way.  Concealment is also good, but cover is the most important first thing.

The next thing you need to do is assess the situation.  Where is the gunfire coming from and how far away from you is it?  Concealment in addition to cover then becomes your second most important priority.

The third step then depends on whether you yourself are also equally armed, and not outgunned.  At that point you need to determine if you can reasonably stand your own ground against the shooter.

If the shooter outguns you, then you need to stay concealed, or escape, because in a confrontation with someone who outguns you, you stand less than a 50% chance.  And even a 50% chance itself when your life is at stake is not good odds.

Therefore in most cases, whether armed or unarmed, escaping and getting away are the most feasible and intelligent actions to take.

And even if you are armed, unless you were trained and are still proficient at shooting accurately under combat stress, either by the military as a combat vet or by the law enforcement agencies and you have been in the situation before, you would still be taking your life into your own hands by making a stand against a shooter when you are alone without any backup.

Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this.

If you are confronted and cornered by the shooter, then yes, you should rush him/her and grab whatever is available to use as a weapon.  With luck and with speed you may prevail, however the odds are significantly LESS than 50% that you will succeed.

Q.E.D.

[rodolfo]

Just a thought on the "Fight" segment, using a fire extinguisher as a club would not be as effective as delivering a face full of dry powder or a blast of CO2.

Joe

I'm quoting someone else.
"Squirt them with the white foam, then hit them with the red can."

[Sawfish]

"Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this."

Never a good idea to use the "always" strategies when your life or someone elses is on the line. Unless of course that strategy is Always dont get killed!
Remember SWAT teams are not legally obligated to put theselves at risk to save your life.
Every situation is different use your head.

[NRA1945]

If you hear gunshots, then the first thing you immediately need to do is take cover.  Cover is defined as getting behind something that will stop a bullet flying your way.  Concealment is also good, but cover is the most important first thing.

The next thing you need to do is assess the situation.  Where is the gunfire coming from and how far away from you is it?  Concealment in addition to cover then becomes your second most important priority.

The third step then depends on whether you yourself are also equally armed, and not outgunned.  At that point you need to determine if you can reasonably stand your own ground against the shooter.

If the shooter outguns you, then you need to stay concealed, or escape, because in a confrontation with someone who outguns you, you stand less than a 50% chance.  And even a 50% chance itself when your life is at stake is not good odds.

Therefore in most cases, whether armed or unarmed, escaping and getting away are the most feasible and intelligent actions to take.

And even if you are armed, unless you were trained and are still proficient at shooting accurately under combat stress, either by the military as a combat vet or by the law enforcement agencies and you have been in the situation before, you would still be taking your life into your own hands by making a stand against a shooter when you are alone without any backup.

Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this.

If you are confronted and cornered by the shooter, then yes, you should rush him/her and grab whatever is available to use as a weapon.  With luck and with speed you may prevail, however the odds are significantly LESS than 50% that you will succeed.

Q.E.D.

Being able to flee and escape is best, but that may not be an option if you have loved ones or those under your care somewhere in building. Also keep in mind many of these mass shooters are not expertly trained in shooting, combat, etc. either, and may be no better or even worse off then you. Their main advantage being the element of surprise and already having their guns out.

Experience seems to show that many of these mass shooter types will easily fold and crumple at the first sign of any serious (armed) resistance once their fantasy bubbles get popped, even offing themselves with their own weapons if the opposing force can't do it for them sooner. Not much fun going into a building and massacring little kids when someone else is shooting at them is it?

If a mass shooter were randomly firing someplace and didn't realize I was there, and I was carrying and had reasonable cover, and could safety take the shot, I would want to try and stop him rather then flee. Thankfully, I've never been in that position, so I'm not sure how I'd really react or what all the variables would be.

As far as "leaving it up to the Swat team", I will never assume or count on that someone will be there in time to save the day, so I must be prepared for the worst. All we can do is prepare, train and practice to the best of our abilities, hoping to get the drop on them before they do us.

[AdamSmith22134]

If you hear gunshots, then the first thing you immediately need to do is take cover.  Cover is defined as getting behind something that will stop a bullet flying your way.  Concealment is also good, but cover is the most important first thing.

The next thing you need to do is assess the situation.  Where is the gunfire coming from and how far away from you is it?  Concealment in addition to cover then becomes your second most important priority.

The third step then depends on whether you yourself are also equally armed, and not outgunned.  At that point you need to determine if you can reasonably stand your own ground against the shooter.

If the shooter outguns you, then you need to stay concealed, or escape, because in a confrontation with someone who outguns you, you stand less than a 50% chance.  And even a 50% chance itself when your life is at stake is not good odds.

Therefore in most cases, whether armed or unarmed, escaping and getting away are the most feasible and intelligent actions to take.

And even if you are armed, unless you were trained and are still proficient at shooting accurately under combat stress, either by the military as a combat vet or by the law enforcement agencies and you have been in the situation before, you would still be taking your life into your own hands by making a stand against a shooter when you are alone without any backup.

Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this.

If you are confronted and cornered by the shooter, then yes, you should rush him/her and grab whatever is available to use as a weapon.  With luck and with speed you may prevail, however the odds are significantly LESS than 50% that you will succeed.

Q.E.D.

Being able to flee and escape is best, but that may not be an option if you have loved ones or those under your care somewhere in building. Also keep in mind many of these mass shooters are not expertly trained in shooting, combat, etc. either, and may be no better or even worse off then you. Their main advantage being the element of surprise and already having their guns out.

Experience seems to show that many of these mass shooter types will easily fold and crumple at the first sign of any serious (armed) resistance once their fantasy bubbles get popped, even offing themselves with their own weapons if the opposing force can't do it for them sooner. Not much fun going into a building and massacring little kids when someone is shooting at them is it?

If a mass shooter were randomly firing someplace and didn't realize I was there, and I was armed and had reasonable cover, and could safety take the shot, I would want to try and stop him rather then flee. Thankfully, I've never been in that position, so I'm not sure how I'd really react or what all the variables would be.

As far as "leaving it up to the Swat team", I will never assume or count on that someone will be there in time to save the day, so I must be prepared for the worst. All we can do is prepare, train and practice to the best of our abilities, hoping to get the drop on them before they do us.

NRA, I congratulate you on your "no polymers" pledge.  Love that!

I do not disagree with you about defending yourself.

However having agreed to that, I urge you not to ever try to be a hero and take action by yourself.

Even the police are taught to call for backup before they act.  You should definitely hole up ready to shoot, but WAIT for the SWAT team to arrive and get the job done.

And if you have never been in the situation, I am certain the stress will seriously degrade your shooting abilities, whatever they might be.  So don't kid yourself.  Be smart.

[IDescribe]

Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this.

If I were armed, I'd rather risk my life than leave others to die waiting for SWAT.  It's preferable to living on knowing I could have done something but ran away instead.

[NRA1945]

NRA, I congratulate you on your "no polymers" pledge.  Love that!

Actually, I don't mind polymer stocks so much on long guns, when their actions and mechanisms aren't riding on the stuff and they still have enough weight to be recoil controllable.

I do NOT want anymore polymer handguns though!

[Grendel]

(snip)
Even the police are taught to call for backup before they act.  You should definitely hole up ready to shoot, but WAIT for the SWAT team to arrive and get the job done.
(snip)

In the context of active shooters, this is incorrect.

We are now trained to operate as singles, or pairs. Seconds or minutes waiting for backup (or SWAT) = dead people. Every cop I know, or work with now carries a grab bag with extra ammunition/magazines for his (or her) rifle/shotgun and handgun and a pocket trauma kit  for themselves. No waiting around for the cavalry, just gear up and head in.

[AdamSmith22134]

Ergo it is always better to let the SWAT team handle this.

If I were armed, I'd rather risk my life than leave others to die waiting for SWAT.  It's preferable to living on knowing I could have done something but ran away instead.

This is dangerous thinking and crazy talk.

When the day is over with, you want to be alive.

[AdamSmith22134]

(snip)
Even the police are taught to call for backup before they act.  You should definitely hole up ready to shoot, but WAIT for the SWAT team to arrive and get the job done.
(snip)

In the context of active shooters, this is incorrect.

We are now trained to operate as singles, or pairs. Seconds or minutes waiting for backup (or SWAT) = dead people. Every cop I know, or work with now carries a grab bag with extra ammunition/magazines for his (or her) rifle/shotgun and handgun and a pocket trauma kit  for themselves. No waiting around for the cavalry, just gear up and head in.

I'll ask the LEO's who teach my local shooting classes here about what their procedures are now.

A trained and active and experienced LEO stands the best chance against a shooter if the LEO is not outgunned.  If he is outgunned however, his chances are not very good either.  Everyone hates to see LEOs killed by the deranged crazies.

Our most recent shooting incident here locally involved a disaffected employee who took revenge on a supervisor and co-workers at his job site and resulted in a major inter-agency call-up before any action was taken by law enforcement, which resulted in several victims, yes, just like you said, and then a house to house search.  They finally got the shooter, but by then the odds were about a hundred LEOs against one deranged shooter.  Those are then extremely good odds.

LEOs are professionally trained and supported, and by their training are taught to be cautious.

For civilians (who are not LEOs) it may be hard to accept that even if you are armed, your best bet at living is to hole up like a rat and hide until the SWAT team arrives to do their work.