Author Topic: czs through training  (Read 11218 times)

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Offline 9millie

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czs through training
« on: August 31, 2012, 01:29:59 AM »
has anyone here ever been to a firearms training course with their cz? did you ever have any problems? from what i have read some instructors frown upon the cz 75 series of firearms.

Offline wgedwards

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 07:54:06 AM »
What exactly did you read and what was the source? The CZ 75 is one of most carried pistols around the world.

Offline JimThornTX

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 12:51:43 PM »
from what i have read some instructors frown upon the cz 75 series of firearms.

Those instructors must be worshipers of all things Glock.  O0

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Offline Faeruss7

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 01:04:13 PM »
     I have to qualify annually for the security team that I am on. We also practice variations of the qualification throughout the year, with a practice qualification leading up to the actual qualification. I train and carry a CZ 85 Combat for this team. I have never had one stoppage of any kind with my 85 Combat while training with this team, but I have seen both a XD and a Glock jam during practice and a qualification, respectively. For the most part, only a few grey-hairs have taken notice of what I carry. However, after the last qualification, of which I scored a clean run, there was newfound interest in what I was using.

     I would say this; I am a fan of personal ownership of firearms. Especially those that are intended for protection of family and self. I love CZs too. But don't concern yourself with what some firearms instructor told you. Find a gun that fits your hand, and points naturally for you. After you have found it, train as hard and as often as you can with it. If you excel, your actions will speak well enough for you.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 10:24:45 PM by Faeruss7 »
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 01:20:33 PM »
Any chance you're referencing this guy?

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218

Don't worry about it.  He's a Glock fanboy.  Most of the responses in the bottom of his page are from other Glock fanboys.

Offline armoredman

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 02:20:07 PM »
I called him on his errors in the article when he wrote it - I was ridiculed and insulted, with no attempt to address the facts. I ignore this guy as irrelevant now.

Offline 9millie

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 03:08:13 PM »
yes that was the article

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 04:17:31 PM »
I also commented on the same article several times.  He was very stubborn and refused to listen to anyone else's experiences.  I don't like Glocks, but I will say that they are a reliable gun.  "Perfection"?  I don't think so.  No gun is perfect.

Offline Gunsandbibles

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 04:40:40 PM »
The fact that he barely mentions one is a tanfoglio and calls it a cz for the rest of the article is funny. I love my tanfo but I dont call it a cz75.

Note most of those problems sound mag related in the article.

Offline armoredman

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 05:17:26 PM »
The individual is looking at the world through Glock colored glasses...which is why he can't see. :)

Offline Sion

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 06:03:45 PM »
The individual is looking at the world through Glock colored glasses...which is why he can't see. :)

I got the same impression after reading the article along with the comments. It seems like he's one of those guys who uses Glock therefore Glock is the best. He doesn't specify what model of CZs were being used or really anything about the guns in question, were they stock or were modifications made, how well were they maintained, how much use had the pistols been through before going through this guys class. He provides no background on the guns that experienced problems, goes as far as calling a clone a CZ.

This is the first time I've seen an article that outright attacks the reliability of CZ. I'm willing to bet for every one CZ this guy comes across that is "unreliable" I could find 10 people that swear by the reliability of their CZ.

As reliable as a Ford Pinto... that's just harsh.

Offline bozwell

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 06:17:28 PM »
Many people will speak to their own personal experiences with a product, oftentimes quite emphatically, not taking into account that their direct experiences with the product are not even close to a sufficient sample size to make a statistical conclusion.  The problem is people tend to put more faith in his opinion on firearms, in which he may be a general authority, but that doesn't necessarily make him an authority on CZ's.  If he saw 2 CZ's fail, but only 5 CZ's have ever been through his training class (just pulling a number out of the air for the sake of example), he may have a horrible opinion of them and their reliability.  That said, if you've only interacted with 5 CZ's ever, you aren't in a position to speak for their reliability or any other characteristic in the aggregate.

In any event, I wouldn't let the article sway you away from CZ's.  Parts will eventually break from heavy use, but that's true with every firearm and every mechanical device for that matter.  Properly maintained, CZ's are very reliable weapons.

Offline Pynckone

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2012, 06:57:14 PM »
As the owner of 5 CZ pistols, I can state unequivocally that I have never had a malfunction of any kind when shooting any of them.  I also have a Kadet Kit and do get the occasional FTF with bulk ammo.  I pull the trigger in DA and believe I have only had 2 instances that the rimfire round failed to discharge.

Reading that 3 out of 4 randomly grouped CZ pistols (or any other decent manufacturer) failed under the gaze of a Glock Guru pegged the BS meter in my head!
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Offline ShootersElement

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2012, 11:39:40 AM »
Is it really the gun's that fails or the owners. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to a mechanical object working as it should I believe that 90% of the "malfunctions" are owner driven with 10% being a flaw or problem with the object. This is typical of our society's mentality that everything is someone else's fault, the owner doesn't take responsibility for their own action.

For instance, neglect can cause a gun to jam (fail to extract) because it's not been cleaned properly or lubed in the proper areas. Also if the gun fails to feed, this could be due to the owner having poor technique or lack of experience in how to properly grip or shoulder a gun.

My point being (not looking through my CZ, HK, Sig, YHM, Savage, ect...glasses) that anything is capable of working correctly if properly cared for and anything (yes even a glock or AK) can fail if it's not maintained.
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: czs through training
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2012, 02:20:47 PM »
Is it really the gun's that fails or the owners. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to a mechanical object working as it should I believe that 90% of the "malfunctions" are owner driven with 10% being a flaw or problem with the object. This is typical of our society's mentality that everything is someone else's fault, the owner doesn't take responsibility for their own action.

I'd buy that...maybe even higher.  There are so many things that can go wrong with a semi-automatic pistol; limp wristing, failure to feed, failure to eject, double-feed, stovepipes, "bad reloads", improper bullet choice, a slide can be pushed out of battery, to name just a few.  The #1 cause of almost all of these are human error.

 

anything