Author Topic: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving  (Read 27570 times)

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Offline HillGuy

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New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« on: January 23, 2013, 01:38:45 AM »
Hi all, first post, but I have learned a lot about P-01's reading the excellent posts here.
Decided I had to have one of these (my first pistol...got a lot to learn) and it came in last week. Unfortunately, while it has "P-01" on the slide, the NSN stamp is missing on the other side. Yes, I know the important thing is the gun itself and it has been confirmed as a P-01 by the SN. But I REALLY liked the idea and look of the NSN number on the frame.

I was told that the reason it did not have the NSN stamp was it had the "new style" slide stop spring and therefore could not bear the NSN stamp since it was "different" than the P-01 certified by NATO. Are you kidding me? You mean in 10 years they have never used a better, stronger, improved part anywhere on the gun? I think I've read the shape of the trigger may have been changed along the line. Sounds like BS to me and I don't appreciate being blown off like that. I know from reading here that some Euro versions of the P-01 have hit the US market and say "Compact" instead of P-01, and I guess that would be disappointing, too. But that's not my problem. I just feel like it is "damaged goods" if I decide to sell it down the road to pick up a P-02 if they ever hit the US! It looks like a counterfeit! Would YOU buy it?

So, has anyone here heard that P-01's in the future have "lost" the NATO certification because of a new style spring??!! Come on, admit it....you know the NSN stamp is cool!

I think it was just a manufacturing goof that should have been caught and never left the plant. It should therefore be replaced under warranty as a defect in material or workmanship...unless of course, there is no such thing as a P-01 with an NSN stamp in the future!

I promise, next post won't be a rant but a range report that I hope proves how even an inexperienced shooter can get good results with a great pistol.

Update: I should have mentioned the Mfg. date was 8/12, based on the test target in the box. Guess it takes that long to get here?

Thanks for any insight on this.











« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 09:20:57 AM by HillGuy »

Offline czech_yo_self

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 11:14:45 AM »
I'm Curious about this as well. I just got my P-01 yesterday after 10days of gun jail, and noticed mine  doesn't have the NATO stamping either. It was my assumption that it was NATO approved even without the markings, but now I'm not so sure. Any information would be greatly appreciated.  :o

Offline JimThornTX

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 02:09:51 PM »
Come on, admit it....you know the NSN stamp is cool!

OK, I admit it. The NSN stamp is cool. Especially when it's on an Olive Drab Green P-01 like mine.  ;D 8)
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Offline ace73

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 07:16:24 PM »
Some early P01's came without the NSN stamp too, but I don't remember what year...
I would be disappointed too!

mbott

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 08:10:13 PM »
Some early P01's came without the NSN stamp too, but I don't remember what year...
I would be disappointed too!

February 2003
The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9?) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8?) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at ?35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that?s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 ?Mean Rounds Between Failure? (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

Heritage:
The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.

--
Mike
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 08:13:45 PM by mbott »

Offline Rowe-75

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 08:29:24 PM »
None of my CZ's have the NSN stamping but I would put any of them up to the test.

Next time you are shopping for a NATO approved pistol, you should verify with the seller that it is stamped.

If ya wanna sell, I'm sure their are many buyers who wouldn't shrug a shoulder at the lack of a stamp, it no less of a pistol.
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Offline HillGuy

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 11:30:54 PM »
Come on, admit it....you know the NSN stamp is cool!

OK, I admit it. The NSN stamp is cool. Especially when it's on an Olive Drab Green P-01 like mine.  ;D 8)

Thanks, JimThorneTX....rub it in!

Anybody here know anybody at CZ that could confirm this spring change will preclude the NATO stock number from being used on all P-01's going forward? If that's the case, maybe I'm Ok with it.

The point, Rowe-75, isn't that it's any less pistol without the stamp and if they can't use it anymore, that's fine. I'd just like to know that it wasn't kicked to the side in production for some reason and I wound  up getting it, flaws and all.

I just don't believe the reason I was given for it not having the stamp. I intend to try to confirm this with someone at CZ, but I thought someone here may have heard about this and could get everyone in the P-01 Club up to date.

Seems like this will cause lots of questions going forward....with new and prospective owners, anyway.

Offline manhairetis

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2013, 03:16:29 AM »
I would recommend contacting CZ USA directly, they are usually very helpful.

Offline HillGuy

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2013, 09:08:56 PM »
OK, guys....talked to Zack (CZ Marketing) today and he said the same thing one of the gunsmiths told me-they made a couple of changes (aka improvements) at the factory and the gun can not use the NSN # because of that. That's their story and they're stickin' to it.

He said a couple of thousand have come in like that and he didn't know if or when the changes would be "OK'd" by NATO. He also mentioned sometimes they have overruns, say for Malaysia, and because of demand, they would ship them to the U. S. BUT, after checking with the factory (earlier, NOT today), CZ-USA found out that the mfg changes were the reason for the missing NSN #.

My guess is a few more of these unstamped P-01's will hit the market and eventually the "newly" approved NATO version will magically reappear. (in other words, when the overruns are sold out.)

He DID say they would have to re-evaluate their marketing material in light of the emphasis on the NATO certification it contains. It could be considered a little misleading. I really think he just said that to make me feel better. Call me a skeptic, but I wouldn't look for any changes....won't be necessary once the correct stamped versions start flowing again!

I've managed to scrounge up 500 rounds here and there and I hope once I've experienced the pleasure of shooting my P-01 at the range, I can put this behind me. I know you guys with the stamped P-01's don't understand, but it's like ordering a BMW and when it gets delivered, it's missing the little BMW badge on the hood & rear end. Same car, just not what you were expecting.

Offline djm3801

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 10:56:55 PM »
This begs the question - Why did they SELL these before getting re-certified? I am sure they are fine pistols but get the change certified and THEN sell them. Buyers expect it.
Dan M

CZ75 P-01

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Offline heineken

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 09:34:37 AM »
When it comes down to it, it seems like the factory made the decision to upgrade a part after a number of years in production. That part must have kicked it over whatever threshold NATO has for changes. IE a working part like a spring as opposed to something solid like a trigger.

My guess is a few more of these unstamped P-01's will hit the market and eventually the "newly" approved NATO version will magically reappear. (in other words, when the overruns are sold out.)

I would guess they'd keep shipping that way until the new NATO certification is made, which would result in a new NSN most likely. Would you rather have zero availability on P-01s in the interim? It's hard enough to find one as it is, what if it takes a year to get recertified? Governmental bodies don't tend to be the most efficient machines.

Personally, I'm more concerned with how a firearm runs. It sounds like you've got the most recent, up-to-date version of the pistol -- dare I say 'better' than the NSN version. Shoot it, enjoy it and know that you have something fairly unique.

Offline JimThornTX

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2013, 10:05:07 AM »
I know you guys with the stamped P-01's don't understand....

I honestly new nothing about the NSN when I bought my P-01. I bought it because it was a CZ and because it was OD Green.  8)
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CZ 83 Satin Nickel
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Offline HillGuy

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2013, 12:09:27 PM »

Personally, I'm more concerned with how a firearm runs. It sounds like you've got the most recent, up-to-date version of the pistol -- dare I say 'better' than the NSN version. Shoot it, enjoy it and know that you have something fairly unique.

You're right, Heinekin. I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a reject or something and I'm OK with it now. Like I told Zack from CZ yesterday, I got the "improved" pistol and didn't even have to pay more for it! I did tell him I wish the improvement had been that they added the Omega trigger (assuming it is a "better" trigger).

Anyway, going to pick up an Uplula at a LGS now and plan on going by the range Monday to try out a couple hundred rounds.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm sure I'll love this gun!

Offline Luminary703

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »
I actually hate the fact that the NSN is stamped on my P01 but it's still my favorite hand gun by far.

Offline manhairetis

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Re: New style slide stop spring = no NSN engraving
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 02:35:05 PM »
I actually hate the fact that the NSN is stamped on my P01 but it's still my favorite hand gun by far.

So maybe you can exchange slides and be both happy. According to the pistol's specs, they should be interchangeable (as per the NATO requirement  ;D  ;D  ;D )