Author Topic: Hollow points in competition?  (Read 6973 times)

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Offline czkali

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Hollow points in competition?
« on: March 28, 2013, 12:46:07 PM »
Not sure if this question belongs here or in the Ammunition and Handloading forum but here goes ...
A few posts I've read seem to indicate some people shoot hollow point bullets in competitions. Is there an advantage/reason for doing this?
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

Offline derweibhai

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »
Zero bullets are made specifically for competition and most of their rounds are HP's. While many manufacturers make FMJ's, lots of the "match bullets" are HP's, I assume it is easier to make them more consistent and accurate than a FMJ. Nearly all the "match" rifle ammo is HP configuration, and they are deadly accurate compared to FMJ's (we are talking 4-5X as accurate group wise).

Offline painter

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2013, 03:26:44 PM »
Angus has commented that he uses the Zero HP.
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2013, 04:09:27 PM »
The reason for using a hollowpoint is that it:

1. Moves the center of gravity more to the rear of the bullet.  This gives increased stabilization in flight.
2. Allows for an increased bearing length for the same weight.  More bearing length means more area of contact with the barrel and rifling.
3. Looks darn cool.  This is important for impressing the Ladies!

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2013, 04:34:06 PM »
James +++

That long bearing surface is also found on the Berry's 124gr HBRN-TP  LOOOONG bullet. It's the longest 124gr bullet I've found.
It doesn't look quite as cool as the Zero or MG JHPs though. ;)

Offline czkali

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 06:04:23 PM »
Wow  :o  at first I thought 1SOW was about to say the ladies are impressed by long bearing surfaces ... but I digress.
 
I too am loading Berry's 124g HBRN right now. Thanks for the responses -- at least now I know people do shoot HPs in competition and have a better idea why.
 
I've only LOL'd a few times when reading posts on this forum but jameslovesjammie's item 3 below ranks up there. I don't know what matches you shoot but there aren't many ladies at my matches, and I don't think the ladies know (or care) what's in my magazines.   :D  But anything that doesn't hurt, helps, right.
 
As always, thanks again for the info.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

Offline gja70

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 09:54:10 PM »
So here is a follow up question to all of the answers that have been provided.......Have you tested any of these theories?

Have you tested a JHP vs an FMJ?  Have you seen a difference?

I have.  I have personally tested various loads and I can tell you this, for ME Personally, I cannot see a difference in accuracy for USPSA and steel challenge competitions.  ( I don't shoot IDPA, but its basically the same thing target distance wise, so I will lump it in there with USPSA ).   If you're talking about bullseye shooting, then maybe there might be a difference.  But for USPSA, shoot what you got, or can get your hands on.

I shoot Montana Gold 124FMJ.   I have thought about switching back to JHP for the closed base ( ie: no exposed lead ), but that is the only reason why.  Not for accuracy reasons.  It just never seems to be worth the extra money though. 

Personally I think people shoot JHP's because they see others shoot them.  Ironically enough, I think I see more people shoot lead RN than FMJ.  I think these folks understand that there is no accuracy advantage with JHP's, and they feel the cost savings with lead far outweighs the perceived accuracy from JHP.  If you're going to shoot 10,000 plus rounds a year, the cost savings will start adding up.

To the OP, go with what you like.  You won't win or lose a match on FMJ vs JHP vs Lead.  You will get more out of dry firing and practicing and having reliable equipment.

Right before I hit submit I had one more thought........

If you shoot Open...odds are you will want JHP.  That is a whole other ballgame from what I understand.  There is a lot of fouling in the comp that can happen with exposed base bullets or lead, so Open shooters I believe ( and I could be wrong ), prefer JHP for that reason.

Offline Stuart

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 10:11:35 PM »
At the time it became popular to do. More bearing surface, no lead exposed at the base. The Hornady XTP JHP were the bullet to shoot. Now there are a lot of choices, that was not available.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 11:34:12 PM »
gia70,  The MG 124 CMJ falls into that encased category too.

I'm just a mediocre competitor, and maybe my loads are different for different bullets, but I do tend to shoot a 'little' better with one particular 9mm JHP bullet.
A lot of that may come from confidence and not the bullet.    Outside of USPSA comp., slowed down at longer ranges and smaller targets,  it still performs pretty well;  but so does the Berry's 124 HBRN.

I know of no way to test a bullets accuracy,  just its feel and results with my loads in my gun.  They ALL shoot better than I do.  I played with lead in electronics for a lot of years, so I like encapsulated bullets. 

The HAP bullets were shot by an NRA winner not too long back, if I rem. correctly. 


Offline derweibhai

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 11:50:30 PM »
I have shot a 1.5 inch 5 shot group at 75 yards with a custom .40 1911 using Zero HP's so the bullet is accurate (bench rested of course. I have never come close to that accuracy with any other FMJ bullet, but some HP's like Hornady come close.

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 12:32:20 AM »
I have.  I have personally tested various loads and I can tell you this, for ME Personally, I cannot see a difference in accuracy for USPSA and steel challenge competitions.  ( I don't shoot IDPA, but its basically the same thing target distance wise, so I will lump it in there with USPSA ).   If you're talking about bullseye shooting, then maybe there might be a difference.  But for USPSA, shoot what you got, or can get your hands on.

I would say this is a pretty spot on assessment.  At ranges USPSA is shot, I don't think you will benefit as much accuracy wise as you would shooting Bullseye or IHMSA.  I still find they are to be more accurate, but with the elevated heart rate from running and additional pressures...a slightly more accurate load will most likely be a wash.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 12:33:39 PM »
From my reading on the subject, the placement of the CG in hollow points contributing to accuracy is now in question. It may simply have spread into urban folk lore category. Whatever. I will say that the most accurate bullets I ever competed with seemed to be the Precision Delta 124gr RN, at least I scored better at the time I was shooting them. Secondly, I tried all the Berry 124gr plated in a side-by-side comparison (same day, same distance, same gun, etc). The poorest performer of the lot was the 124gr HP.

I sincerely want to try the Precision Delta 124gr HP, but can't get up the nerve to order 2000 bullets when they may not have a satisfactory OAL. I'm now waiting on 1SOW's review.

I knew if I waited long enough.....  O0
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 09:04:38 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline twowheels

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2013, 01:12:58 PM »
I had very good luck with the PD 124 RN at 1.15; I also have had good results with the PD HP 124 at 1.05.  These are loaded for my 75 shadow but they seem to work in everything else I've tried them in.  I've got more of both on order and while I wait am currently trying Berry's 124 RN with 231.

I'm a new loader having started in January but I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it.

Offline grapnel

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 03:19:37 PM »
The internet says that hollow points have an enclosed base made more consistently, and the base exiting the muzzle affects accuracy. Hollow points move the CG back to reduce problems in concentricity and wobble in flight. The revolutions needed to stabilize in flight is lowered as a counter to the higher rpms needed from the longer bearing surface. The hollow/open tip creates a boundary layer at the front of the bullet, aiding ballistic coefficient.

But the internet also says this in relation to long range rifle shooting, so the applicability to pistols is not guaranteed.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Hollow points in competition?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 05:32:24 PM »
Quote
I knew if I waited long enough..... 


Like you, and for that much waiting time, I wish I had the nerve to order a few thousand,; but bullets are the major cost of reloading.
Well they said up to an 18 weeks wait for that 100 sample pack,  so hold steady for a while longer.    ;)