VZ 58/2008 Newbie

[pinkbunny]

So, I did some research on the VZ 58, as I am getting the VZ 2008. I will give a summary of them, find out how wrong I am. Might I ask some questions of the more learned members?
From my research, may easily be wrong:
Advantages of VZ-58 vs standard AK-47-
*Milled
*Lighter and handier, even when milled
*More accurate
*Less felt recoil
*Better folding stock than standard AK
*Bolt holds open on last round
*Magazines weigh less than AK magazines

Disadvantages compared to AK-
*Less availability for parts and less aftermarket parts
*Beaver barf handguards known to heat up quickly

Of the VZ 58's, the two most common are the Czechpoint VZ-58, and the Century VZ2008.

Advantages/Disadvantages of the Czechpoint compared to Century -
*Uses original Cold Hammer Forged barrel
*Receiver drilled on side to accept side mount
*Under 16'' rule in US, so a permanent(though excellent) muzzle bread is permanently attached.
*Barrel is chrome lined
*More expensive and much harder to find than Century
*Has great reputation

Advantages/Disadvantages of Century -
*Century has terrible reputation
*This rifle doesn't seem to have been made by the "drunken monkey's" Century usually uses, and is of high build quality
*Lower price and higher availability.
*Uses Green Mountain(variable, but generally good reviews) barrels that are not chrome lined. Not a big deal to me, as I don't shoot corrosive ammunition, and use Corrosion-X as my oil, which I lightly run down the barrel after cleaning.
*Early barrels had some undersized(.308) bores, and oversized outer threads, though this seems to have been fixed over time
*At legal barrel length, this rifle has removable muzzle brakes and a bayonet lug(for those that like that)
*Side Mounts require smithing to drill holes
*Looked down upon because of name, regardless of quality.

Is this about the long and short of it?
Likely changes needed to be done on the folding stock VZ2008-
*Change handguards to better ones with better heat dissipation
*Change grip while at it to make more ergonomic
*Folding stock has some kick to it and doesn't allow a great cheek weld
*Change muzzle brake from slant brake which is supposedly useless for this type of rifle.

I am not a fan of changing rifles from stock configuration, usually. I am not a tacticool kinda guy. But these changes seem appropriate.
-As to the addition of handguards, I think that bonesteel are the best, correct? NEA are hard to come by in the US, and I have heard some less than stellar reviews of the Mako? I am not planning on mounting optics, so heat dissipation is my only concern.
-Hogue AK grips, modified to fit the VZ, sound like the best choice?  http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=57572.0
-I wanted to add a recoil pad, not only to help with recoil from the folding stock, but also to make it a bit longer. I found this thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=30255.msg167187#msg167187  . Is this the best canidate? If so, better to tie it on, or attempt to affix it, for example, JB Weld?
-I was thinking that I would use pipe insulation and duct tape on the folding stock to make a better cheek weld.
-Lastly, the muzzle break. I found this place: http://www.cncwarrior.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=1891 . Is there any recommended muzzle break? Is it just screw on and off, I assume using some oil for lubrication?

Sorry for my long winded post and questions. Thought this blast of information would be the best way to get out my thoughts. Is this information generally correct, or am I dead wrong? Are these changes good, or am I overthinking things, as I haven't even shot it yet?

[vblue42]

I have had two VZ2008s. The first was the folder with Beaver Barf. I replaced almost everything on the rifle.

Slovakian Muzzle Brake. http://www.cncwarrior.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=23263

Bonesteel Handgaurd set. http://bonesteelarms.com/Bonesteel-Arms-VZ-58-Railed-Handguards-BSAVZ58hgset.htm

Ultimate Arms Gear Tactical Foregrip. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058KDIBA/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mako Ergonomic Pistol Grip. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NOS2A2/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

VZ-58 Stock Adapter, Type 2, Straight. http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/vz-58-stock-adapter-type-2-straight/

Magpul MOE Carbine Stock ? Mil-Spec Model. http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG400/180

And a Mil-Spec AR15 stock buffer tube for the MOE stock.



  The second time around I decided to keep it to the original military folder which included replacing that stupid slant muzzle brake with the same Slovakian Muzzle Brake from above.



  Im much happier with the second one. Also with the Slovakian Muzzle Brake the recoil for me is nearly negligible so I have no need for a check weld mode on the folding stock.

[jwc007]

My Vz2008 came with the standard wood stock and I wanted a Folder. As time went on, other stuff got changed and I wound up with this:



Vz2008 with upgrades
BoneSteel upper and lower front handguards
Mako Pistol Grip
Mako Folding Adjustable Stock
Slovakian Muzzle Break
Hammers Red/Green Dot Sight

Have some 600 rounds of Russian Bulk bought Wolf and Tula downrange with it an no issues.  Seems very well made for the price.

[Rowe-75]

Of the VZ 58's, the two most common are the Czechpoint VZ-58, and the Century VZ2008.

*Under 16'' rule in US, so a permanent(though excellent) muzzle bread is permanently attached. Czechpoint adds a muzzle extension which doesn't offer any muzzle brake or flash suppressor traits. I think they will still attach a Slovak brake for an extra fee when placing the order

*Change handguards to better ones with better heat dissipation - Mako/Fab handguards are fine for heat dissipation but I would recommend NEA or Bone Steel. Its just a tougher product.
*Change grip while at it to make more ergonomic - I used a Fab and liked it alot. Fit my hand perfect and lots of storage on the inside for bubble gum

[pinkbunny]

Thank y'all for the information!

So, with a slovak muzzle brake, is it hard to unscrew/screw? I assume just clamp down the rifle, and use a wrench, yes? And it makes the recoil on a folding stock entirely tamed?

For the bonesteel, do I need the heat shield on the beaver barf?
Thanks for all the information!

[Sheepdog]

Thank y'all for the information!

So, with a slovak muzzle brake, is it hard to unscrew/screw? I assume just clamp down the rifle, and use a wrench, yes? And it makes the recoil on a folding stock entirely tamed?

For the bonesteel, do I need the heat shield on the beaver barf?
Thanks for all the information!

"No" on the heat shield from the beaver barf.

[vblue42]

And no wrench for the muzzle brake. It turns free by hand and uses the same spring detent as the slant brake to secure it from coming off.

[vblue42]

Thank y'all for the information!

And it makes the recoil on a folding stock entirely tamed?

Totally tame is going a little far but it reduces it quite a bit. About like shooting an AR. There is no cheek slap from the stock for me when I shoot.

[jwc007]

So, with a slovak muzzle brake, is it hard to unscrew/screw?

As the Vz2008's muzzle threads are slightly pitched different, the initial install will be a bit stiff, but the Muzzle Brake's threads will move to conform to the Rifles Front Barrel threads.  After that, no problem removing and re-installing with just your fingers.  I used a screwdriver thru the front side holes on the Muzzle Brake to get it on the Barrel.

[cz671]

Had a vz2008......sold it but kept the original wood furniture. Don't forget the czusa vz 58 versions.  Wow till this day nobody can actually confirm if they still have .308 bores....anybody?  Among you proud owners

[pinkbunny]

That would be a good test to perform, cz671. Honestly, I doubt it, there's been complaints about it too long not to have been fixed by now. How does one go about slugging the barrel, or what have you to test it?

In all honesty, I find the controversy over the barrels a bit funny. Button rifled barrels are more accurate than cold hammer forged, as are non chrome lined. And mag dumping causes much more throat erosion than regular shooting. As long as we aren't mag dumping, the longer barrel life of CHF barrels is pretty much offset by the increase in accuracy, right? Assuming the bores are the right size, of course. 

[jwc007]

  Wow till this day nobody can actually confirm if they still have .308 bores....anybody? 

As long as I'm getting my 3 inch groups at 100 yards with my Electronic Dot Sight, with plain Wolf and Tula Ammunition, I have not bothered to slug my Vz2008's bore, and since I don't reload for the 7.62x39mm, and have no interest in doing so, I don't see the point in bothering.  My milled Chinese SKS is as accurate.

If only my Egyptian Maadi AKM would get such groups!

[cz671]

I asked on another forums this specific question..the answer I got was "it shoots good so it's gtg" I just laughed.  Couple years back I slugged my czusa vz58 barre/my cugir built roomy PSL/original v58 parts kit (barrel) all checked out at .311, at the time my vz2008 checked at .308.  I also pulled wolf ammo 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r all checked out at .311, and measured smk bullet at .308.  So if you think about it shooting a .311 out of a .308 it's really up to you, just letting u know what I found.  Increase pressure from a bigger bullet outa smaller bore?  Shoot allot, lands in barrel will wear out more since it's not .311,chf and chrome line like the original?  But if you think the 2008s are a better value over czechpoint.....oh we'll you must have a better vz than the original

[jwc007]

So if you think about it shooting a .311 out of a .308 it's really up to you, just letting u know what I found.  Increase pressure from a bigger bullet outa smaller bore?  Shoot allot, lands in barrel will wear out more since it's not .311,chf and chrome line like the original? 

Ruger did something similar with their Mini-30 as their Barrel Throats were made for the Larger Bullets and diameter decreased down the bore, and at the muzzle, it was .308.  Used to own a Stainless Steel Ruger Mini-30 which unfortunately was only AK accurate.  I've read that there are ways to accurize Ruger Mini's, but have not had time to persue that.  Sort of miss that Mini-30 and sort of don't, as my Vz2008 has occupied my time.  It was really annoying that my milled Chinese SKS would out shoot my Mini-30, but that's the way it was.

[RedState]

What is involved in replacing the lower handguard with the Bonesteel? Thanks.