CAI VZ2008 no tab on bolt carrier? Bolt stickiness? Here's why.....

[Radio4man]

Here is the word for word reply I got from Century Arms Gun Smith Help Desk.

Good Morning;

We have occasionally encountered the 'Gremlin' that people believe is caused by the lack of the tab on the bolt carrier, but these have been corrected with adjustments to the sear on a case by case basis. If necessary, we would be happy to make any needed corrections for you.

Thank You Century !!
 

[RSR]

If wanting to know about the Gremlin and specifics on how to fix with the tab method (only sure method short of illegally returning your rifle to full auto or installing the Zendl disconnector) you must read this thread: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/283939-How-to-get-rid-of-the-infamous-CZ-VZ-gremlin

But you need to create an account.
Here's the high point on why, from Bonesteel/ObiwanBonJovi:

A lack of overtravel is what causes the gremlin to manifest itself. With 0 overtravel the rifles will fail to cock everytime as the sear must be pushed down to at least the point of release when striker rides back over it, if the trigger is not pulled past point of release, the sear will recatch on disconnector. The amount of overtravel necessary for the gremlin to not manifest, is determined by the inertia of sear when it is forced downward by striker, and the spring tension slowing the inertia.

More here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38703.0

And here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_99/145592_Tabbed_bolt_carriers_and_the_vz58_gremlin.html

The best test for this as I understand it is to dry fire the rifle (ensuring that it's unloaded and no round in chamber).  Continue holding your trigger all the way to rear.  Engage the action, pulling the bolt carrier all the way to rear (while still holding the trigger) and release the carrier.  Now try firing again.  If you have the gremlin, it should manifest most of the time with this test.

[Radio4man]

I will be sending my bolt carrier out to be "Tabbed".

[Forced March]

I am happy to tab anyone's carrier that needs it or who feel uncomfortable not knowing if it will appear, I know from personal experience that problems like this can be very frustrating.  Recently I was sent a bolt to be tabbed with the striker still in it.  Removing the striker I found that it was severely fractured, had he not sent it to me it could have blown apart in his face.

People, check your strikers!!!!

[AK-47]

My VZ2008 is still under warranty.  I have gremlin issue.  I contacted Century and they responded back with" we will not tab the carrier". So, I sent my rifle to Morgan to get the tab installed.
Century can shove their warranty IMO.  I wasn't waiting 6 weeks to get my rifle back with a possible fix.

[GREG2008VZ]

If wanting to know about the Gremlin and specifics on how to fix with the tab method (only sure method short of illegally returning your rifle to full auto or installing the Zendl disconnector) you must read this thread: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/283939-How-to-get-rid-of-the-infamous-CZ-VZ-gremlin

But you need to create an account.
Here's the high point on why, from Bonesteel/ObiwanBonJovi:

A lack of overtravel is what causes the gremlin to manifest itself. With 0 overtravel the rifles will fail to cock everytime as the sear must be pushed down to at least the point of release when striker rides back over it, if the trigger is not pulled past point of release, the sear will recatch on disconnector. The amount of overtravel necessary for the gremlin to not manifest, is determined by the inertia of sear when it is forced downward by striker, and the spring tension slowing the inertia.

More here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38703.0

And here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_99/145592_Tabbed_bolt_carriers_and_the_vz58_gremlin.html

The best test for this as I understand it is to dry fire the rifle (ensuring that it's unloaded and no round in chamber).  Continue holding your trigger all the way to rear.  Engage the action, pulling the bolt carrier all the way to rear (while still holding the trigger) and release the carrier.  Now try firing again.  If you have the gremlin, it should manifest most of the time with this test.

I did that test on my vz2008 and each time the trigger resets.
But when I dry fire, slide the bolt back, pull the trigger then release the bolt, the trigger wont rest.
Is that a practical test? That's the only way on my rifle it will malfunction.

[GREG2008VZ]

OK while searching this gremlin issue before buying the 2008, I remember reading a thread about making the tab.
Does anybody have the source for that thread?
It had a drawing with measurements etc.

[Sheepdog]

OK while searching this gremlin issue before buying the 2008, I remember reading a thread about making the tab.
Does anybody have the source for that thread?
It had a drawing with measurements etc.

Here's one:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_99/153888_DIY_VZ58_bolt_tab_with_specs.html

[vblue42]

I did that test on my vz2008 and each time the trigger resets.
But when I dry fire, slide the bolt back, pull the trigger then release the bolt, the trigger wont rest.
Is that a practical test? That's the only way on my rifle it will malfunction.

Thats not the gremlin. If you do the test as you describe and the bolt carrier does not hang as you slowly ride it forward, you have the gremlin. But as long as your trigger resets when cycling the action as the rifle would when its fired you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[RSR]

This is why I asked if he had the issue. It is my opinion that Century no longer tabs bolt carriers because they have addressed the issue in another way.

Century doesn't tab b/c Czechpoint patented it and sued Century (from the looks of it, they said the initial trigger group and tabbing by Century were copyright infringements of Czechpoint/CSA's semi auto VZ58 design -- why receivers now use full auto trigger pins with solid steel 1/3rd in on trigger side and no longer uses the tab).  Since Czechpoint is litigious, I'll reserve further comment other than to say maintaining monopolies for the sake thereof is unscrupulous at best, especially when parts kits as available can only be made to function properly in new configurations in a very limited number of ways...

http://news.priorsmart.com/quis-v-century-arms-of-vermont-l4ar/

Patent if you're curious: http://www.google.com/patents/US7676974

[RSR]

I am happy to tab anyone's carrier that needs it or who feel uncomfortable not knowing if it will appear, I know from personal experience that problems like this can be very frustrating.  Recently I was sent a bolt to be tabbed with the striker still in it.  Removing the striker I found that it was severely fractured, had he not sent it to me it could have blown apart in his face.

People, check your strikers!!!!

To clarify here, the VZ58 is a VERY safe design.  The striker is within the bolt carrier, and is locked under tension by the sear when cocking the rifle.  The striker is released when pulling the trigger, then strikes the rear of the firing pin/bolt and the firing pin moves forward to ignite the primer.  The pin is inside the bolt, and the bolt is locked in place by locking lugs.  A fractured striker should not result in the gun blowing up in someone's face.  Just failure to fire issues.

[RSR]

I did that test on my vz2008 and each time the trigger resets.
But when I dry fire, slide the bolt back, pull the trigger then release the bolt, the trigger wont rest.
Is that a practical test? That's the only way on my rifle it will malfunction.

Thats not the gremlin. If you do the test as you describe and the bolt carrier does not hang as you slowly ride it forward, you have the gremlin. But as long as your trigger resets when cycling the action as the rifle would when its fired you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

Disagree, that is one symptom of the gremlin.  Probably the simplest summary here from Obiwan/Bonesteel (note he no longer offers tabbing due to time constraints):

The tab is needed on any rifle without an autosear.  F/A rifels do no need them.  I will tab for $15 plus return shipping ($5.30 flat rate box).  The problem is due to disconnector timing.  an untabbed carrier does not hit disconnector on the way forward until after the striker has already crossed the sear, so if for some reason the disconnector reconnects with the sear after the carrier crosses it in its rearward travel(trigger manipulation can cause this or simply the inertia from the sear can swing it far enough to reconnect),it will stay connected and the sear will remain released until it is too late and the striker follows.  On a F/A rifle the autosear will hold the striker until the carrier disconnects again so there can be no follow.  All the tab does is fix the timing issue on semi autos.  I personally cannot imagine owning a semi vz58 without the tab, and do not feel that any semi vz58 without one can be considered more than just a toy, as it is certainly not reliable enough to be used as a weapon. 
try this with your tabbed and then not tabbed carrier:
hold carrier to the rear of rifle, press and hold trigger, release carrier.
You will find the tabbed carrier will remain cocked, while the untabbed will follow 100% of the time.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38703.0

[GREG2008VZ]

OK while searching this gremlin issue before buying the 2008, I remember reading a thread about making the tab.
Does anybody have the source for that thread?
It had a drawing with measurements etc.

Here's one:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_99/153888_DIY_VZ58_bolt_tab_with_specs.html

Yep that be the one, Thanks!

[Radio4man]

Took the factory tabbed bolt carrier out of my Czech Point VZ58 and tried to install it in a Century VZ2008. Why wont it fit ? Bolt won't close ? Thought bolt carriers were all the same ?

[vblue42]

Took the factory tabbed bolt carrier out of my Czech Point VZ58 and tried to install it in a Century VZ2008. Why wont it fit ? Bolt won't close ? Thought bolt carriers were all the same ?

They are the same.