Author Topic: my new d-technik vz 58  (Read 14899 times)

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Offline vblue42

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2014, 09:42:33 AM »
Funny. Haven't seen a Czechpoint/CSA vs Century bitch fest in a while. ;)

I don't see where Im bitching about anything. Im merely stating that the elitist attitude about D-Technik/CSA/Czechpiont rifles being authentic VZ58s because they are built in the Czech Republic and therefor somehow so much superior to the Century rifles is complete crap. The Czech rifles are clones just as any VZ that is not made by CZ are. That being said the justification for the much higher price of the Czech made rifles is clearly not apparent. Both US and Czech made rifles are excellent rifles in their own right.

And my mistake about the whole 922r thing. I stand corrected.

Offline cz671

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2014, 03:09:36 PM »

You do know that csa builds vz 58s/61 scorpions for military/law enforcement/civilians right?
And century builds them for who?  I was gonna pick up a vz2008 but instead saved a little bit more and got me something better a vz 61 scorpion in .380, at least I know it's built at csa. 
So let me get this straight vz2008
1.  Non-cold hammer forged/chrome line barrel in .308 bore
2.  Do they electronically heat/harden their rails properly?
3.  Do they electronically heat/harden the locking lugs properly?
4.  Do the electronically heat the receiver and quench them in oil for proper hardening?

There's some people who would pay more for a quality vz58/that's built at csa who builds them for military/LE/civilians.  so if you think your vz2008 is a better value more power to ya ;) heck all the time I have the dough to pick up a vz2008 I find something else that sparks my interest... And yes I ordered a marlin 336Y (youth model) over the vz 2008, and won't loose any sleep over it..LOL






Offline Franz Maurer

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 05:56:33 PM »
...And I know Franz hates Czechpoint with a passion for the issue he had. Which I/we have to take his word for. (I have no reason to not believe you).

lol !

for a thousand dollars I expect the rear sight slot to be exactly in the middle of the rear sight
in the meantime I'll hate it with a passion, thank you very much

I'll also add that Julie from czechpoint is a pleasure to deal with
very helpful  and cheerful person,

unlike that buffoon Brown who doesn't make good on his warranty promise

still love the Rifle though  :P

and never had a problem with century



75B .40 ; P-01 ; kadet2 ; '94 witness .45 - slim nose 1of999 ; samopal vz.58 ; tin foil hat.

Offline Franz Maurer

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 06:03:30 PM »
If you ever held or better yet, fired a D-technik Vz.58 you would immediately know what he's talking about. There's no comparison to the Century gun that I held in the gun store once. I'm not trying to be elitist, just being honest.
Congrats on the new fine rifle.

I'm holding a D-technik in the right hand as I'm typing this out with the left
(can't fire in the house)

I see a rear sight slot badly off center and to the left

tried the warranty thing, was told to take a hike

Are the Century guns the same way ?

You may be right about the no comparison part...    :P
75B .40 ; P-01 ; kadet2 ; '94 witness .45 - slim nose 1of999 ; samopal vz.58 ; tin foil hat.

Offline briang2ad

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 06:58:57 PM »
A CHF barrel properly spec'd for the M43 cartridge makes a difference. It's not just the chrome lining.  Source of the receiver does also make a difference.  Yes, they are both builds, not military carbines, but the CP gun is closer the military version in terms of build - and you pay for it.  That is so why you pay more for a Colt/DD/BCM than a DPMS, or an Arsenal vice CAI build.  It's not wrong to buy a CAI.  But it ain't a VZ58 in the same way.  (I'll admit these analogies are loose).

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 07:23:34 PM »
If you ever held or better yet, fired a D-technik Vz.58 you would immediately know what he's talking about. There's no comparison to the Century gun that I held in the gun store once. I'm not trying to be elitist, just being honest.
Congrats on the new fine rifle.

I'm holding a D-technik in the right hand as I'm typing this out with the left
(can't fire in the house)

I see a rear sight slot badly off center and to the left

tried the warranty thing, was told to take a hike

Are the Century guns the same way ?

You may be right about the no comparison part...    :P

Century warranty service is generally awful. (And unless things have changed),the warranty starts as soon as the gun is tagged at the factory. Which is ridiculous. But like I said before. I prefer the CSA built guns. But the Century are generally good guns as well.

------
Franz did you ever buy a new rear sight for your rifle and put it on. Don't get me wrong. The way Czechpoint seems to have treated you is wrong and I'd be pissed too. But it's an easy and relatively cheap fix with a new rear sight.

Offline Franz Maurer

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 08:20:37 PM »
If you ever held or better yet, fired a D-technik Vz.58 you would immediately know what he's talking about. There's no comparison to the Century gun that I held in the gun store once. I'm not trying to be elitist, just being honest.
Congrats on the new fine rifle.

I'm holding a D-technik in the right hand as I'm typing this out with the left
(can't fire in the house)

I see a rear sight slot badly off center and to the left

tried the warranty thing, was told to take a hike

Are the Century guns the same way ?

You may be right about the no comparison part...    :P

Century warranty service is generally awful. (And unless things have changed),the warranty starts as soon as the gun is tagged at the factory. Which is ridiculous. But like I said before. I prefer the CSA built guns. But the Century are generally good guns as well.

------
Franz did you ever buy a new rear sight for your rifle and put it on. Don't get me wrong. The way Czechpoint seems to have treated you is wrong and I'd be pissed too. But it's an easy and relatively cheap fix with a new rear sight.

No I did not, If I do ever find one reasonably  priced It would be either the one with fiber optic inserts
or some kind of adjustable peep sight
I have that slip on pseudo night sight attachment but that of course doesn't fix the problem

the czechpoint warranty is supposedly 5 years
I'm thinking about contacting consumer affairs division of the Tennessee Department of Commerce
as well as Czech Small Arms in Jabl?nka ,Czech Republic
for starters
75B .40 ; P-01 ; kadet2 ; '94 witness .45 - slim nose 1of999 ; samopal vz.58 ; tin foil hat.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 09:23:20 PM »
That's your choice. :)

But it's a $30 part. If not less.

Write a letter or two. Buy the part and move on. That's what I would do.

Offline Franz Maurer

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2014, 12:33:10 AM »
I know, it's such a waste of time
75B .40 ; P-01 ; kadet2 ; '94 witness .45 - slim nose 1of999 ; samopal vz.58 ; tin foil hat.

Offline RSR

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2014, 12:52:25 AM »

You do know that csa builds vz 58s/61 scorpions for military/law enforcement/civilians right?
And century builds them for who?  I was gonna pick up a vz2008 but instead saved a little bit more and got me something better a vz 61 scorpion in .380, at least I know it's built at csa. 
So let me get this straight vz2008
1.  Non-cold hammer forged/chrome line barrel in .308 bore
2.  Do they electronically heat/harden their rails properly?
3.  Do they electronically heat/harden the locking lugs properly?
4.  Do the electronically heat the receiver and quench them in oil for proper hardening?

There's some people who would pay more for a quality vz58/that's built at csa who builds them for military/LE/civilians.  so if you think your vz2008 is a better value more power to ya ;) heck all the time I have the dough to pick up a vz2008 I find something else that sparks my interest... And yes I ordered a marlin 336Y (youth model) over the vz 2008, and won't loose any sleep over it..LOL

Tactical Life regularly recommends Century guns, including the Century VZ 58 as excellent patrol weapons for LE.   http://www.tactical-life.com/magazines/guns-and-weapons/centurys-vt2008/

Further the VZ 58 "sporter" that Czechpoint is selling is not the same rifle that military and LE are able to buy, and are primarily buying the world over.  It's a compromise weapon due to BS US import laws.

But the whole what the military/LE world does is a null and void argument IMO.  US Military Rifle caliber selection has been screwed up since MacArthur insisted that the Garand was chambered in 30-06 (due to surplus stockpiles) over the 276 Pederson.  Look at the Army ACU camouflage.  Look at the history of the adoption of the 40 S&W cartridge (largely driven by firearms manufacturers giving LE agencies free guns in exchange for their previous 9mm service pistols and pre-ban "high capacity" magazines from which manufacturers made big $ reselling, etc) or rather more importantly it's continued use (with modern, far improved defensive hangun bullets) despite the fact that most LE officers shoot far more accurately w/ 9mm and accuracy is what wins/rapidly ends gunfights with (relatively) low power pistol rounds. 
LE & Military selections are seldom due to "best of."   It's largely driven by bureaucracy and awarded to whomever meets the base level of requirements at the lowest cost...

When you consider that you can buy 2.5 VZ 2008s for every CSA VZ 8 at today's prices, do you really believe that the one CSA rifle will outlast 2.5 VZ2008 rifles?  Because apples to apples, that's the comparison that needs to be made.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 01:05:11 AM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2014, 01:00:28 AM »
A CHF barrel properly spec'd for the M43 cartridge makes a difference. It's not just the chrome lining.  Source of the receiver does also make a difference.  Yes, they are both builds, not military carbines, but the CP gun is closer the military version in terms of build - and you pay for it.  That is so why you pay more for a Colt/DD/BCM than a DPMS, or an Arsenal vice CAI build.  It's not wrong to buy a CAI.  But it ain't a VZ58 in the same way.  (I'll admit these analogies are loose).

Yes, but CSA/Czechpoint when selling receivers stated that there were something like a half dozen plus different surplus barrels (with slightly different diameters) that the receiver would need to be precisely machined for prior to press fitting (source: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=36292.0).  I imagine that the CSA builds experience the same issue...  Knowing that each receiver is to a large degree "custom fit" to surplus barrels of differing diamters opens up many more consistency issues than the Century guns that run the same barrel/receiver specs on all.

My argument, and I think others here too, is that when you compare a VZ2008 and CSA VZ58, it's a matter of diminishing returns for what you get for your $.  Yes, in some instances, the VZ58 has advantages over the VZ2008.  But when considering things like metal trigger, the ability to change muzzle devices, the ability to attach a bayonet, the inability to run an ambi safety, etc, those advantages may disappear for each individual purchasing.  For me, the price/quality issue is ultimately like buying a Mercedes sedan or a GM/Ford sedan.  If I have the choice of paying double + when I could being paying half or less for a vehicle that accomplishes all the same major functions -- I'm taking the one that costs one-half or less over a the 2x+ cost model where I really don't get anything I NEED -- is a fancier label with higher resale, prettier trim/finish are nice, but then you also need to consider the a higher cost of long term ownership (e.g., each muzzle device change costing $50+) when needing rebarreled odds are you'll need to replace the receiver too so your gun is done, etc...

My take on this site is that the pro-CSA guns bias is so strong that folks aren't necessarily encourage to actually consider their options and their needs.  Instead, they're told the only option is CSA.  Folks look to this site like Consumer Reports for VZ58, and there needs to be a more balanced appreciation of both platforms IMHO -- especially, considering that a new VZ58 from Czechpoint is now ~$1300 if wanting them to attach a muzzle device other than the stock thread protector (something most of us on here would recommend w/ this rifle).   At sale prices, that's 3 VZ2008s.  Or 2 VZ 2008s and at least 15 mags for each weapon as well as a bunch of custom parts/mods or a couple thousand rounds of ammo.

I personally don't have an unlimited "fun" budget.  What I don't spend on firearms goes into an older truck I'm overhauling, other firearms or ammo or range time, fishing or other hobbies, vacations, etc.  Debating each rifle on how one or the other is superior is one thing.  Considering the bang for the buck/value is the another.  And they're both often confused.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 01:41:09 AM by RSR »

Offline cz671

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2014, 03:43:38 AM »
holy crap rsr, i could never get too deep into all this but hey you are who you are.  for me i like to keep things simple as possible.  so can anybody answer number 2-4?  just asking.  if i buy a mercedes over a ford...is their anything wrong with that?  i dont, but apparently theres people in this world that do

Offline RSR

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2014, 07:29:44 AM »
I emailed B&R to ask. 

They look like a very professional and well equipped shop: http://www.brmachine.net/index.html

Nope, nothing wrong with driving any car you want so long as it's well maintained.  ;D

Regardless, that's my point.  Just trying to add a little perspective.  3-4 years ago, you could get a DTechnic/CSA for $200 more (remember CSA as listed at $699 vs $399-499) than the VZ2008.   ~50% more but negligible for most folks.  Now you're talking $800 more, over 3 times (CSA now over $1200 vs Century which haven't risen in price), 300+% the price of the Century guns.  The situation's changed significantly, and I think acknowledging that is helpful to aspiring VZ58/2008 owners.  Get the first VZ 58 you can afford and shoot and see if you like.  Hopefully you'll become an enthusiast and ultimately invest in several of different manufacturers.  (I personally want to figure out how to import/legally acquire a CZ VZ 858 in the states, but not sure if that can happen.  But that's my aspiration.)

I'll shut up and stop hijacking this thread now...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 08:04:15 AM by RSR »

Offline vblue42

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2014, 10:52:19 AM »
so can anybody answer number 2-4?  just asking.

Yes, I can answer that question......... IT DOESNT MATTER! The Century receivers are treated properly for a firearm receiver and thats all that matters. If you want to pay 2-3 times the price for a fancy heat treat that may or may not even provide a benefit then you go right ahead. But I can almost for sure guarantee you that any malfunction with a VZ2008 won't pertain to how the receiver is heat treated and likely won't pertain to who manufactured the rifle either. And the fact that the 2008 doesn't have a CHF or chrome lined barrel isn't enough of a factor on accuracy for the round these rifles shoot. I don't care what kind of barrel you have in your rifle, if you can shoot at all, you can hit your target at 200-400 yards regardless of how the barrel is made. Beyond that distance the 7.62X39mm round is considered inaccurate anyway. Again when it comes to new owners looking for info on this forum on purchasing their first VZ the attitude form elitist on here about looking down on the VZ2008 is unwarranted. There is not enough or any difference IMO based how the receiver is made (or heat treated) to justify such an attitude.

Offline cz671

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Re: my new d-technik vz 58
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2014, 02:05:23 PM »
so can anybody answer number 2-4?  just asking.

Yes, I can answer that question......... IT DOESNT MATTER! The Century receivers are treated properly for a firearm receiver and thats all that matters. If you want to pay 2-3 times the price for a fancy heat treat that may or may not even provide a benefit then you go right ahead. But I can almost for sure guarantee you that any malfunction with a VZ2008 won't pertain to how the receiver is heat treated and likely won't pertain to who manufactured the rifle either. And the fact that the 2008 doesn't have a CHF or chrome lined barrel isn't enough of a factor on accuracy for the round these rifles shoot. I don't care what kind of barrel you have in your rifle, if you can shoot at all, you can hit your target at 200-400 yards regardless of how the barrel is made. Beyond that distance the 7.62X39mm round is considered inaccurate anyway. Again when it comes to new owners looking for info on this forum on purchasing their first VZ the attitude form elitist on here about looking down on the VZ2008 is unwarranted. There is not enough or any difference IMO based how the receiver is made (or heat treated) to justify such an attitude.

Another holy crap.... Is that your answer?....really?  Do you also drive a ford? ....just kidding man.  Seems like when person decides to pay more for a csa vz instead of buying the cheap 2008, seems like we get some attitude now.  By asking legit questions regarding the 2008 still goes un answered here, do you realize maybe some 2008 owners would like to know this?  I think this I great information regarding the csa vz and the CIA 2008 differences regardless if you think it makes a difference or not...don't you think?  I used to own a vz2008 years ago with original wood furniture...then soon after I sold it because I was not happy with it, hope this does not bother you.