Ruined for AK's

[cz671]

LOL yea there are a lot of good deals out there recently. I say grab a VZ2008 while they are cheap. They are outstanding rifles for the $450-$500 they are selling for right now.

So you have 2 vz2008s?

Instead of me buying a U.S built vz2008, and a huge ak fan and have not got one in 5.45x39 I purchased a izmash saiga 74 two days ago instead.. Could not resist the price of 499

[cyberjad]

Thats a good price on a well made AK74. I try to avoid the 74, only because I don't want to worry about another caliber; there are too many I have to keep stocked already.

Yes, I own two of the VZ2008s. Picked up my first one a couple months back and fell in love with that. After a little shooting I decided I wanted a wood stock on the back and a CNC machine brake on the front. The second one I have not decided what to do with it yet. I was thinking about a modern build - polymer hand guards, replace the rear sight with a red dot, etc. We will see about that though; for now it sits in storage.

[RSR]

Those new production Zastava PAPs look like really nice rifles.  Trying to find a reason/role to buy one -- not an immediate need for me however, but definitely in my long term wish/fulfilling every possible need list...
Thinking I can justify them as a more light squad support weapon role as well as backup for my VZ58s w/ the parts and magazine commonality with AKs.  For likely stationary light squad support weapon, the heavier weight and stock comb/angle on these PAPs are a net positive, and see adding a bipod, possibly an optic, and the 3-4 of the AK47 75 round drums (that cost about the same as 1 of the VZ58 drums).  In this role, the ergonomics differences/advantages from/of the VZ 58 become less important...

What I would really like to see is Zastava to start importing some of their M91 snipers, but don't know if that'll happen anytime soon.  Will probably end up going with VEPR in 7.62x54r instead, which are little less accurate but a lot more common...

Currently, I have my 5.56/2.23 Century Golani Galil setup for a designated marksman rifle role and AK74s would probably also excel at this role and/or primary carbine weapon role for wife/kids/new shooters/folks whom are more recoil sensitive -- currently my primary weapon is the VZ58 with other AKs fulfilling various secondary/niche roles.  The AK74 ammo costing 1/2 of the 223 and arguably being a more lethal/better engineered bullet over the 223 fmjs is also an add'l net plus... 

My Galil reasoning is that from an ammo perspective, it's important for every American to have at least one weapon in that caliber and w/ my magwell adapter, I'm able to run the M16/4, AR15 stanag mags...

Ultimately, my next battle rifle purchase after my 2nd VZ 58 purchase will be a 308 -- either a scout type bolt action or a PTR91/HK91 (haven't decided which but leaning towards the latter).  Caliber for same reasons as galil and platform as both fill the plus 350-400 yards limitations of my current setups (Galil shoots accurately to about 500, but the round's energy is spent by that range...), and with more capacity, detachable mags, less weight penalty, and still filling a legitimate battle rifle role.  Most 7.62x54r platforms are most suitable to long-range sniper setups and/or long range battle rifles.  Inside 100 yards, their limited capacity and/or unwieldly length make them unsuitable for multipurpose roles.  The HK91 for instance is same length as the M16, so larger than carbine length but still sufficiently maneuverable (and shorter than M1/14 and FAL platforms by ~10%).  One option I really like to shoot the 7.62x54r is an Enfield conversion and as such would really fulfill most of 308 scout snipers roles... 

[cz671]

if your considering a scout type bolt action in .308 you should consider the mossberg mvp patrol takes m14 magazines, im considering one not sure in .308 or .223.  i have the predator 18" flutted barrel and surprised these things are accurate takes m16 magazines and great trigger and adjustable mines set about 3.5 lbs. 

[muggia59]

Cz671. Ive actually been considering the same, only both. No hurry, since already have an AR and a 308, but the scout seems handy. I would like them both to have iron sights, since optics can be easily mounted.

[bluefin]

This has probably been covered before but I'd like to have a VZ-58 in 5.45. Just a thought for some entrepreneur out there.

[Stogies]

Not at all. I have been an AK fan for some time now, I just admire them for the simplicity in design, function, manufacturing and maintenance. That and the very limited ressources their inventor initially had.

[cyberjad]

Well if I had to grab one rifle, it would be my VZ. However, I could not resist by another "AK". I say "AK", because this PSL is technically not one, but quite similar.

[cz671]

Had one for couple years now, PSL will takeover where the 7.62x39 left off I terms of distance shooting the rimmed 54r.  Just picked up my SVD Dragunov "Tiger" yesterday....my journey is now complete......hehe

[cyberjad]

Had one for couple years now, PSL will takeover where the 7.62x39 left off I terms of distance shooting the rimmed 54r.  Just picked up my SVD Dragunov "Tiger" yesterday....my journey is now complete......hehe

Sweet! Would love to have one of those in the collection. They cost some serious coin though. Post a picture for us to enjoy

[RSR]

PSL's are based on the RPK's, so they're likely a variant, just built for the more powerful 7.62x54R.
Draganov's are very different internals, short-stroke vs long-stroke piston mechanism of PSLs. 

(I've been doing my research on 7.62x54r Rifles). 

Actually, my ideal in the caliber would probably be the SVT40 (think a 7.62x54R SKS).  They're available in Canada for the $250 range versus the $1k range in the states. Boo.  Which is why I'm back to the Zastava PAP for a cheap shooting 7.62x54R rifle (basically the same mechanics of the PSL, but built from new parts instead of questionable parts kits like most the PSLs).  But at their price, I'm still thinking the 308 is a better way to go.  With a sub 300 SVT40, I could justify a  7.62x54R over a 308 platform...

Regardless to the 308, the mossberg isn't technically a scout with the standard scope mount, which I actually prefer for an at range rifle.  I also really like the mag situation.  The only thing I don't like is that barrels in 308 are 16.5 and 18.5" respectively (both flash and muzzle blast are significant relative to slightly longer lengths).  18.5 is acceptable, but I really don't care for less than 18" barrels in 308, with 20" preferred.  I figure if I'm paying a premium to shoot the better ballistics and energy round and it's not my primary multi-role rifle (which a bolt action really shouldn't be), then why send it out of short barrel and lose 10-20% of velocity of 20 or 22" barrel.  Regardless, might go back to a Sako or something like I was originally considering.  Or the PTR91 as multi-purpose heavier caliber military sporter instead of a target/hunting/precision rifle.  Who knows.  Too many options, too many disparate needs, haha.

Thanks fellas.

[cz671]

here ya go cyberjad sneak peak
my romy cugir built psl 54c matching numbers, with polymer set

[RogerCZ75Bfan]

I was never the biggest AK47 fan. Don't get me wrong, I do own three. However, I always thought they where kind of crap compared to ARs and other guns. Still I appreciated them for what they are and enjoy the experience and history behind them.

Recently, I began eying the Yugo M70 O-PAP AK47. Really neat guns for an AK, but I just can't get myself to pull the trigger on buying one. Every time I think about how much I love my VZ's, I feel ridiculous purchasing an inferior gun. I am still trying to talk myself into the O-PAP, but the two VZs I recently bought has really killed a bit of desire to buy these heavy, stamped guns with terrible safety's and significantly more recoil - even if they are fun to shoot.

Anyone else feeling ruined for AK's?

Depends what AKs you're talking about. Arsenal SGL 21 and 31. Real Russian on Saiga receivers. Extremely nice to shoot. Cadillacs of AKs.

[RSR]

I'd definitely consider the SGL 31 in 5.45x39, but for 7.62x39 I'm staying with the VZ 58. 

But like the VZ2008 vs the CSA VZ 58 debate, I'm not sure that the Arsenal value over a Waffen Works necessarily justifies its cost... 
Or heck, I think I saw J&G sales selling Saiga's doublestack coverted, tapco trigger, side rail, chrome barrel, etc, for ~$700 -- the same bones as the Arsenal, but minus Arsenal's added barrel threading, muzzle brake, hand guards, stock, and bayonet lug.  Arsenal's have been running $1,000-1,200 or more, +$300 to +$500 over the converted Saiga. 
Or for $600 you can get a Waffen Works 74 that basically just lacks the Arsenal furniture and custom muzzle break (fwiw, barrel is chrome lined and properly hardened but not hammer forged)...

My main reason for considering the AK 74 is that these days with good CCI 22LR ammo being so scarce and expensive, the AK 74 costs about the same to shoot, is a "real" full power rifle round, and is readily available...  Considering the value proposition and the corrosive ammo, that further pushes me away from the platinum Arsenal option.  Also, I think the 5.45x39 round and the AK 74 is a great platform for new shooters, provided they're properly trained how to and do clean their weapons after shooting...

[Clemson]

I am also a convert to the VZ58, everything about it, in my opinion, is much more refined, and as a left hand shooter with a rifles(not handguns or guitar) the safety and top eject are perfect. A UTG combat butt pad helps on the folder, which I also like a lot. I do want to get a better muzzle brake though.