Author Topic: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?  (Read 9501 times)

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Offline cz671

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 05:18:14 AM »
x2 CP vz58s/CZUSA vzs,  to me are worth it for the "Facts" given on how its made at CSA, not sure about the vz 2008s.  CSA produce great firearms and not just vz58s.  and for the RECORD had my czusa vz58 since 2008 and stll with the polymer trigger which back then everyone said will eventually break....so far so good, no major issue no parts replaced....nothin.  so i guess the extra $500 you pay for, will be worth it...at least for me.  and i did have a vz2008 but eventually sold it :) but hey maybe one day will get another one, but theres always something better out there...for me.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 05:43:27 AM »
I like your style sir. :D I see you have one of the newer Skorpion pistols in .380.

Honestly, the only two things that are annoying about CSA guns are they don't (generally) come with bayonet lugs. Not an issue for some, but I like bayonets. Both of my CSA guns will have a lug eventually. And that since the guns have barrels just shy of 16 inches. They need extensions or permanently attached muzzle devices. But regardless, these surplus barrels are superior to the Century ones. IMO.

Offline cyberjad

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 07:12:27 AM »
x2 CP vz58s/CZUSA vzs,  to me are worth it for the "Facts" given on how its made at CSA, not sure about the vz 2008s.  CSA produce great firearms and not just vz58s.  and for the RECORD had my czusa vz58 since 2008 and stll with the polymer trigger which back then everyone said will eventually break....so far so good, no major issue no parts replaced....nothin.  so i guess the extra $500 you pay for, will be worth it...at least for me.  and i did have a vz2008 but eventually sold it :) but hey maybe one day will get another one, but theres always something better out there...for me.


Wish they still sold them with the beaver barf and your blue finish. I just love that color :)

Offline knoxy

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 12:52:14 PM »
x2 CP vz58s/CZUSA vzs,  to me are worth it for the "Facts" given on how its made at CSA, not sure about the vz 2008s.  CSA produce great firearms and not just vz58s.  and for the RECORD had my czusa vz58 since 2008 and stll with the polymer trigger which back then everyone said will eventually break....so far so good, no major issue no parts replaced....nothin.  so i guess the extra $500 you pay for, will be worth it...at least for me.  and i did have a vz2008 but eventually sold it :) but hey maybe one day will get another one, but theres always something better out there...for me.


How do you like that FastFire on there?

Offline cz671

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 03:29:47 PM »
Thanks sheepdog, yeah I wish they had that bayo lug back in 2008....oh well.  Yes the scorpion is in .380, wish they had them in 9mm though.

Cyberjad I totally agree, CP should offer the vz58 in original military gray finish and their scorpion also :). I've seen a scorpion in that color 8)

Knoxy, as for the fastfire no range time yet.  I just pulled it off my marlin lever to try out

Offline RSR

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2014, 06:00:50 PM »
Again, most of the questions being asked were already covered here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=61017

If wanting/needing clarification, come on back here and ask.

My take -- the CSA/Czechpoint weapon is now $1200 retail. 
With it you
1. cannot easily change muzzle devices and likely need to pay a gunsmith to detach permanent and re-permanently attach muzzle devices,
2. there is no bayonet lug (no bayonet, and no original Czech bipod availability without changing out your front sight body), and add'l cost to add,
3. the receiver used on these is identical to less than 5% of the global market which affects the ability to run certain "global" accessories like the guneXpert ambi safety (to manipulate safety w/ thumb if right handed shooter w/o removing/releasing grip on pistol grip),
4. you have to buy several more US compliance parts if you want to legally run/attach surplus magazines w/o buying US mag parts from Czechpoint, (figure $100+ here)
5. you darn well better demand that your CSA barrel is chrome plated w/ these b/c there are several different sizes of surplus barrels and when you need it rebarreled/shoot out your current one, good luck finding a surplus barrel (let alone one with the exact diameter of yours -- anticipate needing a new US barrel and quite possibly receiver if the barrels you can find are all smaller in diameter than your receiver),
6. Czechpoint's US trigger is a plastic/polymer -- really?  No one is even willing to accept and upgrades that on even a $120 marlin 22 rifle,
7. and lastly, the CSA no longer include the original beaver barf furniture, just a cheap (my opinion) black polymer.

The VZ2008 avoids most of these issues. Costs 1/3rd to 1/2 of the CSA VZ58 and despite the non-chrome barrel, replacement barrels are easily available, swappable w/o having to modify receiver, and you can definitely melonite a Green Mountain barrel for EVEN BETTER barrel life than the chrome plated one the czechpoint comes with.
The chrome barrel and that Czechpoint tabs their bolt carriers are the primary arguments in favor of the VZ58s over 2008.  And it doesn't matter to me as I actually prefer park on military style rifles I plan to use (less issues w/ solvents, etc), but some folks prefer the CSA VZ58 gloss paint appearance over the VZ2008s' park.

There's also been recent discussions to the advantages/disadvantages of the 308 VZ2008 barrel vs the 311 to 310 VZ58 barrel.  It's another thread, but read up.  I see no detriment to the VZ2008 barrel being 308 b/c the chamber is correct for 7.62x39 (all that really matters) and in fact a net benefit if wanting to reload and have a wider selection of 308 caliber bullets for reloading...  Some premium US 7.62x39 commercial ammo also appears to use .308 bullets despite advertisement to the contrary.  Oh, and a 308 barrel vs 311 barrel of exact same materials will lead to longer accurate service life, switching from narrower to wider bullets as the non-chromed barrel wears.  Once the Czech chrome wears off,  the barrel will have many fewer rounds before it begins to keyhole...

From my perspective, if you want a platform to customize and shoot, choose the VZ2008.  If you want a collectible item/safe queen/investment piece, go w/ the VZ 58.   With the recent increase in prices by Czechpoint -- it was $699 to $799 just a few years ago (VZ2008 at the time in the $400 to $500 range, where it remains), the CSA/Czechpoint VZ58 has risen to $1200 these days and, for me, doesn't make sense from a value proposition.  Not saying they aren't fine rifles, they are, just that in relation to the other ways I could be spending that extra ~$800-$1000+ I'd need to spend to make a new VZ58 have all the same functionality/features of the VZ2008 platform, it's not a good value for me -- when you can buy 2-3 VZ2008s for every VZ58, it makes more sense than the VZ58 if you want to use one platform for home defense, trunk gun, and have a spare in reserve...  Something to be said for spares in depth and platform commonality IMO.  Or spending money in ammo, on training, other additions to your armory, something for the wife, etc...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 06:09:49 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2014, 06:11:52 PM »
Should add that I believe CSA does use new springs while VZ2008 uses surplus.  Something to consider but $50 should cover all the main springs you'd need from Czechpoint...

Offline cz671

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2014, 07:13:32 PM »
All the time I have a chance do buy the cheap-r vz2008, something always catches my attention, spent my money on a PAR 1 ak47 instead this what I think of it :) :-\ :o  8)

Sorry vz2008 maybe next time ;)

Offline RSR

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2015, 09:07:50 PM »
The only other Century import product I have is a Grand Power P1 9mm, made in Slovakia, and I have no complaints.  This is one heck of a nice pistol for the money.

Crazy deals on Grand Powers at JG Sales -- $299 for the full size and $349 for the compact (same price as those turkish CZ clones).  $20 mags available as well.  I just got 4 mags and the full size for (one mag w/ the full size) for ~$410 w/ 30 of that being shipping...  (Mags and gun go separately.)   Have been keeping an eye on them and elsewhere everyone w/ them in stock have been asking more than $400 for the pistol alone.  (And take a look at who all makes the various components below as well... Kind of a who's who.)

Here's the link: https://www.jgsales.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=grand+power

A pretty ingenious pistol design in my opinion -- and just released on US Markets by Century (Slovakian built, Century imported) in ~September of this year. 

Personally, I'm much more interested in this K100 than Arsenal's Strike One: http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/products/strike-pistol-system

K100 -- http://www.practicalhandgun.com/the-slovakian-grand-power-k100-9mm-service-pistol.html
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The slide is manufactured from chrome-nickel molybdenum steel by Belgian supplier Fabrique Nationale Herstal. The 108mm long barrel is made of 51CrV4 steel manufactured by CZ-UB according to Grand Power?s requirements. The magazines are made inItalyby Mec-Gar, who now manufactures magazines for various firearm companies? pistols.
And there are supposed to be decocker kits coming to the US soon too -- currently, just has a safety (guessing a safety and decocker combo)...

Good review of K100: http://tacticalgunreview.com/staff-review-grand-power-duo-the-k100-mk7-and-the-p1-mk7/

http://www.classicfirearms.com/hgnp1mk7-1 (can find these around $400, just linking here for the torture test description)
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Used by the Slovakia military = where there is no shortage of quality locally made sidearms from the former Czechoslovakia - Grand Power pistols were put through, and passed with flying colors, incredible torture tests that other internationally famous brands failed miserably. Such as 100,000 rounds without any changes in critical dimensions. 20,000 consecutive rounds without any feeding failures. And a silicone dust, wind chamber test (think desert sandstorm) that ground the competition to a halt - literally. Attractive, tough, comfortable to use and light weight to carry, Grand Power makes a pistol that you will be proud to own for years to come. Whether it's the full size K100 Mk7, or the compact P1 MK7,Grand Power makes a pistol that's just right for you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApXyvCNyw4g
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 09:19:16 PM by RSR »

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2015, 11:37:05 PM »
The only other Century import product I have is a Grand Power P1 9mm, made in Slovakia, and I have no complaints.  This is one heck of a nice pistol for the money.

Crazy deals on Grand Powers at JG Sales -- $299 for the full size and $349 for the compact (same price as those turkish CZ clones).  $20 mags available as well.  I just got 4 mags and the full size for (one mag w/ the full size) for ~$410 w/ 30 of that being shipping...  (Mags and gun go separately.)   Have been keeping an eye on them and elsewhere everyone w/ them in stock have been asking more than $400 for the pistol alone.  (And take a look at who all makes the various components below as well... Kind of a who's who.)

Here's the link: https://www.jgsales.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=grand+power

Does that pistol have a plastic trigger? 

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RSR: "Czechpoint's US trigger is a plastic/polymer -- really?  No one is even willing to accept and upgrades that on even a $120 marlin 22 rifle,... "

Wait,  all my Glocks, and my S&Ws and even my Walther have multi-part plastic triggers too.  Perhaps because they are all striker fired like the VZ58 it's all good?  Dont own a Marlin 22, so I cant tell about that.  Is it only bad ("really?") to have a plastic trigger installed on a rifle, but pistols are OK?   ???  Help me understand Martin.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Sheepdog

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2015, 12:24:56 AM »
I think some people (I'm not talking anyone in particular) just think that steel/metal triggers are superior for some reason. Or maybe some folks like the feel better. But I've never found any evidence that a metal trigger on any gun is anymore reliable or better than a polymer trigger of some kind. I've had zero issues with the plastic triggers on my CSA rifles. So I've seen zero need to replace them.

Another example. I'm a big Beretta fan. The 92 series is a favorite of mine. Either my #1 or #2 favorite gun. Most newer 92's, including the military M9 use polymer coated, metal triggers (the metal is a skeleton and thin really). The all metal triggers offer zero advantage. And least any significant or discernible advantage. Just like polymer vs metal triggers on the different vz. 58 pattern guns.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 12:27:12 AM by Sheepdog »

Offline RSR

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2015, 01:02:29 AM »
I don't know about the grand power's trigger material -- we'll see...

The only polymer trigger I have is on a Taurus 709 that I can't locate a metal replacement for, only have to have combat accurate due to small size and intended use anyways (don't anticipate precision trigger pulls w/ a cc handgun), and mags are currently unobtanium so with only two mags I consider it disposable unless/until I can acquire more... 

Everything else (actually all rifles -- sub2k, 10/22 that I can think of offhand), if they come w/ plastic, I've swapped them out...  Except for that Taurus my only other polymer pistols -- Sig Pro 2022s -- come with metal triggers. 

My personal view/bias is that plastic as cheap and disposable.  I refuse to compromise with rifles (I consider rifles more generational investments whereas most pistols I view almost entirely as utilitarian tools -- just don't have the emotional investment w/ pistols); hence, interest in previous generation rifles like the VZ58 and Galil.  Logically or trying to be unbiased about the facts, I also believe plastic as more prone to stress/fracture due to greater forces of rifle rounds, and much more difficult to repair in event of failure...  And from trigger feel, I do think that metal triggers transmit vibrations and fcg feedback much better than polymer which seems to deaden where you primarily just get spring tension/loading feedback...  Bottom line, as a consumer I try to buy quality, and plastic/polymer in most uses is a compromise material -- the compromises being primarily weight and cost savings...  In certain instances, I'm open to it, but in others I'm not. 

My philosophy/perspective best I can express it -- YMMV.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 01:06:55 AM by RSR »

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2015, 09:33:21 AM »
RSR,

Respectfully your argument is backwards in my opinion.

I listed multiple pistols I own with poly triggers.  This isn't 1950's bakelite we are talking about.  Most of these formulations of materials (such as glass filled nylon) can be far superior in wear (for the service and function they are design for) and tensile strength as compared to steel. 

As far as generational longevity I promise that you can spray polymer fire arm parts with salt water every day and subject them to a widow and offspring ignoring them to 20 years without maintenance before touching or transferring them, and there wont be a speck of rust anywhere.  My weapons collection in deep storage literally drips with MC3000.  If they had polymer back in the 1800's you would have a lot more barrel-less civil war rifles today.

Heck - what about the EVO 3 - is that trigger polymer?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 09:37:53 AM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Nubia

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2015, 09:36:58 AM »
did anyone buy one of the "vz. 58 Military Classic" specials that Czechpoint had, that sold out in a few hours? I did, and love the rifle. I am curious what others think of these? The only complaint I have is that the muzzle brake is not removable... well, without removing the "permanent" pin.

Offline DanielBoone

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Re: Got my Czechpoint this week... is it worth it?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 02:48:11 PM »
I did as well.  It's an excellent rifle.  I've been meaning to do a review at some point.  I get tired of the Czechpoint vs VZ2008 crap over and over though;)   I have two other Czechpoint CSA rifles, both with removable muzzle breaks on the new Walther barrels so I'm happy with that.  The one you're referring to I bought to leave in full beaver barf glory as my representative military VZ58.  It came with a screaming mint bayonet, the finish is more rugged than usual and looks more original military to me, and it is an accurate rifle.  I wanted to have one with the original surplus barrel.  It also came with an early front sight and trigger guard...

What did surprise me was that it is a Waffen Werks and D-Tech marked receiver.  Is yours the same?

It's a looker - but I ran it hard at the range and there were zero malfunctions - on par with my other CSAs....