Load Testing: Winchester 231

[Wobbly]

While the correct TC adjustment can be tedious to obtain, once set you're good for at least a year. Bump the die lock ring wrench to make sure the die stays put.

The correct TC will leave just the faintest circle on your plated bullets.

 

[1SOW]

My money is on your 4.3gr load, and "guessing" 128-ish PF (1030-1035 FPS).   

[Old Rocket]

Old Rocket,  he may not be stateside.

If he is,  that price is waaay out of line.
http://www.tjconevera.com/berrys-bullets.html

You are probably right since he is from Oz, just trying to figure out if red shoes are involved.

[1SOW]

I didn't see Toto.

[kaiserkudo]

Thanks guys. I am in Australia hence the $$ difference. I can get a HiTek coated 124gr RN pill for $90 per 1000 vs the Berry's $145 per 1000.

Anyhow - I went to the range today to test my Berry's 124gr HBRN 9mm with Winchester 231 - using my new CZ SP01 Shadow. Unfortunately the range chrono was out of service so no velocity results.

Not sure what I'm meant to look for for over pressure signs?? Flattened primers? Split case mouths?
I've placed a fired case from each group in the photos.

Test was done at 10m or around 11 yards for you state side shooters;) I was resting my wrist on a small sandbag and this is the third time I've actually fired a pistol.

Loading specs:
BRASS:       Lapua
POWDER:    WIN 231
PRIMER:      CCI Small Pistol
Projectile:   Berry 124gr HBRN 0.356" (9mm)
COAL:         1.132"
CZ SP01 Shadow with 11lb recoil spring - no other mods.


5 shot groups

3.8gr - Soft recoil - all 5 shots cycled the slide - 1 flyer.   

4.0gr - couldn't tell difference in recoil. Was having too much fun

4.1gr - started to speed up a bit too much and the group opened up - user error

4.2gr - Noticed a bit more of a push with the recoil.

I think I like the 4.2 and 4.3 loads  - although they all functioned without failures and were all fun to shoot.

Next session I will take the distance out to 25m which should reveal more.

Thanks for the help CZers!

Photos No Longer Available for Showing

[Riptide439]

Very nice for the last offhand!
Looks like your 4.2 or 4.3 is a winner. Look forward to seeing your 25m results.

[kobus]

nicely done! you are a natural reloader. keep at it and try to chrono those 4.2gr and 4.3gr loads when you can. 

[1SOW]

Very good job reloading AND shooting!

[kaiserkudo]

Thanks guys. Shooting 25m was a bit more humbling and results weren't as impressive, even off a rest and doing my best to hold same POA- the best I could manage was an 8" group with a bunch of the 4.2gr loads. They're not keyholing- just inconsistent spread, althouth that could be user induced 

The 4.2gr Win 231 charge also felt more snappier today with a bit more muzzle rise.
I'd love to try and experimnt with 147gr and Vit n320 to get an even softer shooting load at 130 PF.
Unfortunately its hardly ever available here so I have to keep trying with what I can get- which is 231 and WSF.

[kaiserkudo]

Finally got a chance to Chrony some loads today.
124gr Berry RN Win 231 4.0gr loaded at 1.132" = Av 1000 fps
124gr Berry RN Win 231 4.2gr loaded at 1.132 = Av 1040 fps (lot of variance from 1020 to 1140 )

[1SOW]

The 1020 isn't a surprise surprise with 4.2grs.  The 1140 is a big surprise.  This also contributed to that average speed ?
Chronos need indirect light, shots level across the sensors, and all shots at about the same height .  Normally the chrono needs to be 9-10 feet away from the muzzle. (4 marching paces  )  Early moring or late afternoon sunlight can cause strange results depending on the chrono.
Were you checking your powder drops for consistency?

I've been wrong MANY times before,  but I would have bet 4.3grs is needed to to get 1040 fps.

[kaiserkudo]

I was thinking that the harsh Australian sunlight was giving the chronograph some grief. The most consistent reading with 4.2 grains was around 1040fps whereas the 4.0gr was hovering around 990-1005 fps. Chrony was about 10ft away.

I dont think the 1140 reading was accurate- Win 231 measures really well on my Dillon 650- confirmed with beam scale that ten consecutive charges werent moving more than +/- 0.05gr.

[57K]

kaiserkudo, this is the method I teach and it's pretty much full-proof for taper crimping autoloader rounds. The best way to start is by knowing the case-wall thickness of your brass measured about 1mm from the casemouth. Also, oversized cast and plated bullets really need little more taper crimp than to remove the flare, yet they still have to have a finished case-mouth diameter that works in YOUR pistol where the SAAMI Max. spec is .380. You will also find varying case-wall thicknesses among different brands of brass where you might want to taper crimp according to the actual case-wall thickness for a particular brand of brass.

Here's an example. Say you measure a number of cases and the average case-wall thickness for your 9mm brass is .011". Simply take .011", multiply by 2 and add the bullets diameter. That will give you the case-mouth diameter for a finished round with the flare removed with no taper crimp. If the plated bullet you're using is .356", .011" X 2 = .022" + .356"= .378" There are differing opinions as to whether you actually need any taper crimp with slightly oversized bullets, but using .001" isn't gonna hurt a thing where the case-mouth diameter in this example would be .377". This is just an example because it sounds like your Dillon dies are sizing tighter than typical. For 9mm JHPs I like around .0015" of taper crimp, .002" for the .40 and .45 and there should be no set-back when you do the press test, pressing the bullet's nose into your reloading bench, block of wood, etc. 

[Wobbly]

Equipment
Caliber:  38 Spcl
Bullets:  Berry 148gr DEWC
Brass:    Mixed
Powder:  Win 231 (HP-38)
Max Velocity:  Unknown
Primer:  Federal Small Pistol
OAL:     Seated flush with case mouth w/ very light roll crimp
Pistol:    Ruger GP100-6"
Qty:      6 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  50F cool, clear and bright
Chrono:  ProChrono DLX

Load      Avg Vel           SD
3.0gr          638              22
3.2             668              21
3.4             700              30
3.6             746              46
3.8             827              26
4.0             864              39
4.2             936              14
4.4             975              24  Suspected Max Load
4.6            1009             27
4.8            1029             27
5.0            1031             15


NOTES
• Although we reached Max Load at about 4.4gr, testing was done in a 357 with a much higher allowable chamber pressure. Do Not try this is a 38 Spcl pistol.
• Take special note of how the velocity increments are at ~50-60 fps and then suddenly drop to 20, and then 10. This even though the SD remained constant. That dramatically proves suggests we were out of the safe loading zone.
• Best accuracy was ~3.4gr. Want to go back and test 3.5gr.
• Powder ran clean across full range

 


The test


The view down range


Ready to go

[Wobbly]

Equipment
Caliber:  9x19 Luger
Bullets:  124gr Precision Delta JHP
Brass:    Nickle Fed Cartridge (FC)
Powder:  Win 231 (HP-38)
Max Velocity:  1050fps
Primer:  Federal Small Pistol
OAL:     1.100
Pistol:    CZ SP01 Tactical
Qty:      8 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  60F cool and clear
Chrono:  ProChrono DLX


Load      Avg Vel           SD
3.9gr          954              12
4.0             968              10
4.1             995              17
4.2            1029             21
4.3            1053             13   Max Load
4.4            1078              8   Above Max Load


NOTES
• Pleasant to shoot; nice velocity increments
• Low SD attributed to great metering
• Cases and gun were reasonably clean