Author Topic: Load Testing: Alliant E3 powder  (Read 11992 times)

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Offline levellinebrad

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Load Testing: Alliant E3 powder
« on: March 19, 2014, 06:19:28 AM »
Good morning everyone. I was at the LGS yesterday and picked up some E3 and some WST for testing. They had some VV N340 but at $42 per pound, I let that one go. I have decided to start testing the E3 first. I will start by saying that I am looking for a very specific PF of 126 to 135 as I shoot production. It is my understanding that E3 is a very fast powder and needs extreme care when loading. Here are my initial thoughts and observations during setup. I will follow up with chrono info in the near future.

The powder reminds me of Clays by the way it looks. Large flakes but a little darker than Clays.
I load on a Lee Loadmaster and the same holes used for clays are giving me the same weight for E3.
I have noticed that I get some variance of .1gr with the Lee pro auto disk. It seems that it gets a little heavier by .1 gr if I let the machine set for a few minutes. This is the first powder that has not been 100% consistent in my Auto Disk. Makes me a little nervous.
I will be starting with 3.5gr to see where I am at and make adjustments from there. I will also be using xtreme 124gr plated round nose and testing other bullets once I see how this performs. Wish me luck.

I came home for lunch today and was able to run 10 rounds over the chrono. Gun used is a CZ75 SP01 with a 4.6" barrel

Elevation 600'
Temp 50 degrees F

124gr RN Xtreme plated
3.4gr E3
1.130
Avg Velocity 1013 (1027)
PF 125  (127)

Notes: very little smoke, very little recoil, not tested for accuracy. I had 1 round that was very low at 981 FPS. The other 4 rounds were 1028, 1032, 1024, and 1026. This avg velocity and PF is listed to the right

124gr RN Xtreme plated
3.6gr E3
Avg Vel 1053
PF 130

Notes: little more recoil, no smoke, not tested for accuracy. no signs of over pressure

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 08:06:47 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline Riptide439

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 07:26:37 AM »
I don't blame you for not getting thr N340. That is pricy.
Look forward to the E3 results.
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Offline levellinebrad

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 08:14:48 AM »
I loaded 10 ea of 3.4gr and 3.6gr at 1.130. I found that if I shook the powder drop on the upstroke and down stroke, that my throws were more consistent but still not dead on. I may need to find a different powder drop to do any meaningful testing.

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Offline Bossgobbler

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 01:56:36 PM »
3.5 of E-3 will be about 128pf

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 03:41:19 PM »
I haven't used that XTreme bullet, but with a Berry's 124gr HBRN at 1.15, 3.6gr got me PF 126.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 04:03:17 PM »
You "may" be able to make the drop more consistent if you tap the powder container with a 1/2" dowell/equivalent a few times just before the drop.  This can help settle the course powder in the drop tube.  When you raise the case to drop powder give it a second or two to fill,  or even tap it again. Check it out and see if it's worth the effort.


Offline IDescribe

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 04:25:01 PM »
A QUICK WARNING:

For any inexperienced/new reloaders looking at this thread, there is NO published data for this powder with pistol rounds. It's a match-grade shotgun powder.  Alliant has expressed their intention to publish pistol data for it in the future, but there's no guarantee that when they do publish data for it that the data will include 9mm.  In the meantime, they have suggested Red Dot data minus 10% is a safe place to start.

Remember that if you choose to load with e3, you are in uncharted territory.  If you don't have a chrono, don't even think about it.  If you do have a chrono, I would personally recommend starting low and working up.  Many are looking at 3.0gr as a safe starting load for 124/125gr bullets, and a few tenths lower for heavier bullets.  Mining other people's data on the internet will net you other people's higher working loads, but unless you start low and work up with a chrono, you don't really have anything to judge pressure by.  And when you're in uncharted territory, don't rely on other people's measuring devices working the same as yours.  Start low and work up.  Start low and work up.   ;)

Also, while I have not experienced this myself (because I haven't gone this far), I have read others discussing getting over-pressure signs in primers at 4.2-4.4 with various 124/125 bullets.  This does NOT mean you should consider 4.2gr the upper limit.  Over-pressure signs in RIFLE cartridges, IF you have the experience-base to do it, and IF you have a baseline with that powder, primer, case, bullet, and rifle, can let you know you're going too far.  That's with rifle.  It's not the same with pistol.  With pistol, if you get pressure signs, it's a sign you went too far a while ago.  Pressure signs at 4.2-4.4 with e3 in 9mm is not indication that 4.2 is the limit.  It's an indication that the limit was passed a couple charges ago.  Keep that in mind.

You can load 9mm with this powder, but move slowly and be careful.  ;) 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:29:05 PM by IDescribe »

Offline levellinebrad

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 05:59:11 PM »
You "may" be able to make the drop more consistent if you tap the powder container with a 1/2" dowell/equivalent a few times just before the drop.  This can help settle the course powder in the drop tube.  When you raise the case to drop powder give it a second or two to fill,  or even tap it again. Check it out and see if it's worth the effort.

I am thinking of getting something that will vibrate the container.

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Offline BigHeat

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 06:01:28 PM »
The load I am using for my Tactical Sport using E3 is   as follows     4.2 gr with a 180gr Precision Delta bullet with an overall length of 1.130   gives me a power factor of 165.8
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Offline levellinebrad

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 06:03:41 PM »
Idescibe is right on the money and thanks for pointing that out. There is absolutely no published data, by the manufacturer, for this powder. Anything I post as results should be taken as a reference and definitely not as gospel. I am fairly new at reloading myself and take this particular testing on after months of research just trying to determine a starting point.

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Offline 57K

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 06:48:44 PM »
I use spherical (ball-type) powders exclusively in handgun loads, but with the current powder shortages I may end up having to use a flake powder which I haven't done for probably 15 years or more. Sphericals are denser and finer grained. Much denser in some cases and powders like True Blue meter as well as anything you can buy while flake powders just don't match some of the better sphericals in terms of pressure stability and ballistic uniformity.

I know some guys at XD Talk that have been working with e3 for a while and getting pretty impressive results. in 9mm it appears to burn slower than its burn rate would indicate and one experienced handloader has loaded 124 gr. cast bullets to 1200 FPS without any signs of excessive pressure. Be careful though. The larger physical grain size with the lower bulk density typical of flake powders, chargeweight consistency should be closely managed.

I don't know if FEG is still on the forum, but for years he used and recommended IMR SR4756. It's also a flake powder but smaller in physical size as is SR7625. These powders along with SOLO 1000 are single-based meaning they're made from nitrocellulose where double-based powders have nitroglycerin added. Single based flake powders can be pretty uniform and pressure stable. Unforyunately, I've heard that 4756 and 7625 are being discontinued by the geniuses at Hodgdon. SR 4756 does well in high pressure cartridges as well as warm .45 ACP loads and used to see a lot of use in heavy revolver loads. It is capable of excellent accuracy in 9 X 19mm where some loads will be compressed.  ;)
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Offline jwc007

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 08:52:58 PM »
I don't know if FEG is still on the forum, but for years he used and recommended IMR SR4756.

He's not been active here for a very long time.  It was his posting that got me to use SR4756, but in different applications and charge weights.
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Offline 1SOW

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 11:01:34 PM »
I benefitted from his loading advice too.  Was it him that changed his forum name to Radome?
It's been quite some time.

Offline levellinebrad

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2014, 08:40:48 AM »


I know some guys at XD Talk that have been working with e3 for a while and getting pretty impressive results. in 9mm it appears to burn slower than its burn rate would indicate and one experienced handloader has loaded 124 gr. cast bullets to 1200 FPS without any signs of excessive pressure. Be careful though. The larger physical grain size with the lower bulk density typical of flake powders, chargeweight consistency should be closely managed.



Xd forum was where I found most of the data I used to determine my starting point. I also found useful info on Brian Enos forum and the firing line, as well as others.

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Offline Bossgobbler

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Re: Alliant E3 test data
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2014, 01:29:30 PM »
TEST 1
Tactical Sport 40 S&W using E3,  165gn Blue Bullets  @ 1.160 OAL,   4.0gn   160.2pf


TEST 2
Caliber:   9x19 Luger
Bullets:   Blue Bullets 125gr TC
Brass:      Mixed
Powder:   Alliant E3
Max Velocity:  Unknown
Primer:    S&B
OAL:        1.120"
Pistol:      Accu-Shadow
Qty:        10 rounds each, slow fired
Weather:  81°F indoor range
Chrono:   ProChrono

Load      Avg Vel           SD
3.6gr       1042             15
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 08:15:51 AM by Wobbly »