Author Topic: New bullet coating  (Read 12264 times)

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Offline jameslovesjammie

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New bullet coating
« on: April 18, 2014, 05:43:08 PM »
I'm testing a new type of bullet coating.  It's been in development as a bullet coating for 2-3 years, although the automotive application of this product has been around for decades.  I'm fairly certain there is someone on this forum who uses this product in his business.   ;)

Anyway, here are some pictures of lead bullets that I cast and coated with this product.  I'll share the details and simplicity of the application when I get a chance.  It's cheap to do!  Someone could get into this method for ~$50 with enough material to do tens of thousands of bullets.  As far as application goes, it is far superior to pan lubricating.

Here's some teaser photos:

Left to right: Lee 358-125-RF, Ballisti-Cast 931, Lee 358-150-1R, MP-Molds 358-140-FP, NOE Ranch Dog .311-165-RF.  The rifle bullet didn't cure for long enough.  It may get a second coating, even with the gas check present.





The bullet on the left is sized, the right isn't.  The marks in the grease groove are NOT chips or damage to the coating.  They are actually remnants of Johnson's Paste Wax left in the sizing die from sizing .38 wadcutters.  As you can see, the bullet on the right has material from too-loose of a sprue plate on the mould.  It won't affect shootability of the bullets, but is an imperfection not related to the coating process.



Finished bullets



The product adhears VERY well to the bullet.  These two bullets started out looking exactly the same.  I smashed the bullet on the right with a 2 lb hammer.  Even being this thin, the coating did not chip, peel, or crack.  It perfectly conformed to the shape of the bullet.



What does this mean?  It means that it should have no problem maintaining a barrier between the lead inside the jacket and the rifling.  Theoretically, it should be as much of a barrier as plated or even jacketed bullets.

Performance and accuracy testing to come.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 06:06:17 PM »
Hot gasses will be the test to see.
Sure looks good! 8)

Offline Wobbly

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2014, 06:44:35 PM »
In my crystal ball, I can clearly see Painter retiring to a Caribbean island with his soon-to-be-made millions.

 ;D
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Offline painter

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 07:10:16 PM »
In my crystal ball, I can clearly see Painter retiring to a Caribbean island with his soon-to-be-made millions.

 ;D
Actually...

I'm a liquid guy. ;)

I'm curious James. How did you get the bases coated?
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 09:07:10 PM »
I'm curious James. How did you get the bases coated?

CoolWhip.  Or the container, anyway.

My first attempt was by dumping about 150 bullets in my vibratory tumbler, which was emptied and cleaned with mineral spirits prior to use.  I added about a teaspoon of powder, put the lid on, and turned it on for a few seconds for the static electric charge to build up.  Then I removed lid and inspected the bullets, repeating until I had satisfactory coverage.  It worked, but I never got the coverage I was looking for.  The tumbler created ample static charge, but the vibratory action was too violent and would actually knock powder off the bullets at a certain point.

Upon more reading on the subject, I found that the preferred method of application was using a CoolWhip container and using more of a swirling method, as opposed to heavy vibrations.  Any container with the recycling symbol with a "5" in it seems to be the right type of plastic.  Cottage cheese containers work as well, but I don't like cottage cheese.

So what I did was put about 75 bullets in the CoolWhip container and about a teaspoon of powder, then swirled it around.  It worked!  The results were FAR superior to the tumbler method.  Then I pick out the bullets with a heavy yet fine tweezer and place them on  a old, rusty baking sheet covered with Reynolds Non-Stick Aluminum Foil (the expensive stuff).  You don't want to use the cheap stuff because it will glue itself to the base of the bullet (ask me how I know).  Then simply bake at the powder manufacturer's recommended temperature and duration and you're good to go!

When done baking and cooling, I simply run them through whatever sizing die I have available.  For .358 (which I use in both 9 and .357/.38) I use my Lee push through sizer.  For the .30 cal rifle bullet pictured above, I run it through my Star sizer to size and apply the gas check.  I'm not particularly happy with the outcome of the rifle bullet.  I believe I only baked it for 10 minutes, when the powder manufacturer recommends 15.  PLUS they were done with the vibratory method, and I don't believe I got the desired amount of powder on them.  There shouldn't be any issues with re-coating them with the gas checks on.

Offline painter

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 09:12:31 PM »
Interesting application method.

My limited knowledge of powder is it really doesn't stick well to itself once cured...nor does much else.

The reason is it has no pores from solvent evaporation like liquid coatings do.

I'm really curious to hear how these things hold up to the heat of combustion.
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Offline Radom

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 09:23:21 PM »
Looking forward to learning what this is.  If we get any extra-credit for guessing...

Some version of the powder coating used on rims? 

I sure looks prettier than Alox!
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 09:33:49 PM »

Some version of the powder coating used on rims?

Same stuff!  There is a version of Harbor Freight powder coat that works with this process that is super cheap.  Not all powders work with this method.  When I get home I will let you know the exact powder I use.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 09:56:06 PM »
Just for the non-initiated,  does this coating "add" any appreciable diameter to the bullet--.001?  .0005?

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 10:05:53 PM »
Just for the non-initiated,  does this coating "add" any appreciable diameter to the bullet--.001?  .0005?

Roughly .002", which gets sized back down after cooling in a sizing die.

Offline painter

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 10:11:17 PM »
Just for the non-initiated,  does this coating "add" any appreciable diameter to the bullet--.001?  .0005?
Just for the non-initiated,  does this coating "add" any appreciable diameter to the bullet--.001?  .0005?

Roughly .002", which gets sized back down after cooling in a sizing die.
Which tells me it's a thermosetting resin.

My question is how they'll handle the temps.
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Offline 1SOW

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 10:16:58 PM »
So,  if I had a few  MB .SWC 356" bullets,  they would turn out approx. .358" with this coating? 
 

Offline DWARREN

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 10:21:42 PM »
How do they do when shot?
Any effect on accuracy?
Make cleaning any different?
Need more info and pics  of fired rounds, please!    ;D
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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2014, 12:19:29 AM »
So,  if I had a few  MB .SWC 356" bullets,  they would turn out approx. .358" with this coating?

Your Missouri Bullet Co. bullets already have lube in the grease groove.  You would have to get the lube out ahead of time, or the lube would melt out before the powder coating would start to run and set.  If you really wanted to try it, you could put the bullets on an old cookie sheet and put them in the oven at about 200 degrees.  That should melt any lube out of the bullets.  You could swirl them in acetone afterwards to ensure that all oils are off the bullet.  You want the acetone to be completely gone so they don't ignite when you bake them.

If you want to uniform your bullets afterward, you will need a sizing die as well.  I'm using the Lee Sizing Kit, which is least expensive when purchased anywhere else.  That is what I am doing after baking.

Offline nicky

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Re: New bullet coating
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2014, 06:45:13 PM »
I stumbled across a thread on another forum that also was about coating lead. I never got to read the whole thing.
If anyone is interested here is the link : http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?184-Coatings-and-Alternatives