Author Topic: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....  (Read 115818 times)

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Offline s0nspark

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2014, 06:24:22 PM »
s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't... 

Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.

Hehe ... no worries :) I actually enjoyed the read - it confirmed some of my feelings about all of this.

I should have been more clear when I said "home defense" - I really only meant outdoors.  I prefer a pistol for indoor use (and am researching adding a suppressor at some point... I am rather fond of being able to hear stuff *grin*)

I prefer 7.62 as a caliber - my chief concern is ergonomics with the vz.58. I have yet to see one in person and just don't know if it would work for me.
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Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2014, 11:29:48 PM »
If you're a lefty, the ergos are perfect, except there's not tactical bolt release option (but charging handle is support hand side).

If you're a righty, you can have essentially set your VZ58 to run with all the same speed mods as any new production rifle, depending on your needs.

The main ergonomic thing that most Americans notice is the short stock length...  It gets serviceable with the AK grenade launcher pad that adds another inch -- cheap UTG on amazon or the better one that Apex sells. 
I have two actually.

This one is a softer rubber: http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Model-Combat-Butt-Pad/dp/B002TUSK06

This one is a harder rubber but comes w/ a strap: https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/products_id/2519

Slightly different grip nubs on the back too, so possibly one is for wood stocks and one is for for folders?

I put the strap on the softer rubber one since I decided that the softer provides better recoil absorption but YMMV.  First had the softer and decided I wanted to try one with the velcro strap for a cleaner look than the paracord I'd been using...

Update:
Looked at the Apex one, it came in a guntec USA package: http://guntecusa.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60_85&product_id=254

The Amazon came in a UTG package, so look like different products.

FSE's page tells you more about it being modeled after a soviet grenade launching buttpad (and theirs might be a third addition, or the same one guntec is repackaging):
http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?products_id=339



I got one of the buttpads like Zahal is selling on ebay (here is an example: http://www.zahal.org/products/butt-stock-pad-for-original-vz-58-folding-stock?path_parent=153451 )

Basically, it's cheap somewhat soft plastic like bargain brand tupperware lids.  Maybe adds 1/8-1/4" to the length of pull.  Other than the small nubs for grip, I really don't see the point.  It allows the stock to fold and looks more substantial in pics, but save your $.

My advice is to go w/ the Apex one above for the folding stock.  Higher quality, better made, and cushions recoil but w/o all the bounce of the softer one.  I'd recommend only running the softer UTG one on your fixed stocks as the Apex one with a more scalloped stock attachment hole and being denser rubber is less likely to fit.

Or you can spend $100-125 to configure your stock pretty much anyway you want it with Stormwerkz adapters.  With the metal folder, just wrap it in paracord and junk the Century AK Slant for a VZ specific muzzle device and you'll rock and roll with it.

The other complaint is the stock grip being too small, and there are several larger in the $40 range that fix that problem easily.

The M1 Carbine of the Warsaw pact world is a fair statement.  It's a light rifle, fast and natural pointing, and good sight picture (I'd recommend a red dot on this for sure, and if you're able to hand pic your rifle, I'd recommend one with the eared front sight -- the loops seem to be the most common in these latest century releases and unfortunately the post ends about 2/3rds up the loop and my eyes naturally go to the middle of the front sight hood loop, rather than the sight post which is further up).

If you want to lego out your rifle and precision shoot, an AR is probably better.  But if you want a w/in 250 meter carbine that still allows for substantial customization, has a few MOA accuracy with your 3-4 MOA reddot or irons and a harder hitting and cheap learner round, then the VZ58 is probably for you.  Compared to AKs, the aftermarket upgrade production selection is probably more robost IMO, albeit more expensive.  AK owners in the US still overwhelmingly have the "why would I spend money upgrading an AK" mentality (or they're busy fixing poorly made cheap AKs so their rifles too have that legendary reliability); whereas, the VZ58 is so close to perfection, the mods seem to progress more naturally.
(The one AK mod outside of rails that's VZ equivalent is the Galil mag release which allows for the triggerfinger, right handed, to drop the mag.  They do have bolt hold opens but they aren't last shot so really only serve to prove it's clear at the range...)

For the why of the 7.62x39 and it's awesomeness w/in 200m, take a look at/a google of the 300BLK arguments over 5.56.  Everything except the subsonic rounds being common applies, and the ammo cost is much lower than 300BLK -- if you can find it, 300BLK has been running 80 cents or so per round so the folks I know shooting it are reloading (they're still running 30-40 cents per round on components alone), and I don't have the time for that right now.  And then take a look at the requirements of a modern battle rifle -- stuff like ambi controls, last shot bolt hold open, tactical bolt release, light weight, piston, preferably short stroke as cleanest and more accurate than long stroke (that the VZ58's action is entirely linear on a plane parallel to the barrel is a plus too), the ability to mount optics and other tacticool mods, etc.  The VZ58 either has them or aftermarket can support them to the extent they're prudent for a minimal investment.  If you like any other intermediate caliber battle rifle, you'll like the VZ58.
Due to the action and ejection port, the VZ58 doesn't have a full flat top rail and we can't get a full length foreend quad rail...  Those are the only 2 things the AR guys can say that the VZ doesn't have/can't support that the AR does.  We also get less FTEs than the AR guys due to our large ejection port, and I don't think the full length quad rails are critical...
AR guys also ding the VZ58 on its sights (legitimate, but VZ iron sights are more than minute of man accurate), and the rock in mags (I actually prefer the positive lock in to a rock versus the straight insert, seen several ARs crap mags immediately after insertion due to a less than positive lock).

AKs just can't compare on ergonomics.  Their primary sell is one of proven superior reliability to all other weapons systems -- but I think the VZ58 is just as reliable.  The VZ58 *might* need its springs -- striker, recoil, and piston -- changed more often but I haven't fired enough rounds to verify this with certainty.  Otherwise, they're even here from my experience.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 11:38:24 PM by RSR »

Offline JDA70

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2014, 09:22:18 AM »
s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't... 

Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.

Hehe ... no worries :) I actually enjoyed the read - it confirmed some of my feelings about all of this.

I should have been more clear when I said "home defense" - I really only meant outdoors.  I prefer a pistol for indoor use (and am researching adding a suppressor at some point... I am rather fond of being able to hear stuff *grin*)

I prefer 7.62 as a caliber - my chief concern is ergonomics with the vz.58. I have yet to see one in person and just don't know if it would work for me.

I'll cover the ergonomics here on the vz.58 for you.

Around 7 pounds with a paratrooper folding stock and Wood Impregnated Plastic furniture
its been the most maneuverable rifle I've owned. it's just really sleek and light weight.

It beats an SKS and the AK47 or 74.

Gripe #1 Small pistol grip. Pinky finger tend to hang over.
Gripe #2 Poor cheek weld with a paratrooper folding stock.
Gripe #3 Fore grip Wood Impregnated Plastic gets hot quick.

All those things are minor though and can be fixed up.
You really should czech one out. You don't know what your missing.  :)
 
If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline s0nspark

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2014, 09:41:53 AM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline JDA70

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2014, 10:37:36 AM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?

I try and avoid those debates.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0
If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline jwc007

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2014, 01:02:17 PM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?

Don't start that one again!  ::)
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline s0nspark

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2014, 01:13:07 PM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?

Don't start that one again!  ::)

LOL sorry... It was an honest question :)

If anyone wants to PM me their strong opinion one way or the other I would be interested to hear.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline s0nspark

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2014, 01:19:22 PM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?

I try and avoid those debates.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0

Thanks for that. 

I know absolutely nothing about either company and next to nothing about the products ... I'm just trying to do some due diligence before purchasing. Money is a factor but I am content to save and wait if the benefits dictate that. Above all this will be my only rifle for some time so I just want to pick something solid :)
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline Cheapo

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2014, 04:55:47 PM »
Well I just picked up a century, I'll let you know how it goes.  :P

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2014, 05:44:44 PM »
For those of you ordering without kits, Cheaper Than Dirt has a great deal on bayonets.  $14.93 per, plus about that in shipping and handling regardless of quantity...  Yes, S&H is expensive, and yes, I also have major CTD gripes, but their surplus pricing can't be beat.

I just ordered yesterday and got today, but one is long tang and one is short tang.  Long tang bayonet is in very good condition, and its scabbard is new.  Short tang is also in very good condition and scabbard is the same.  Hard to tell if both bayonet's wear is from storage or use...  Regardless, worth ordering a couple to see what you get, and selling whatever you don't want for more than you paid for it on ebay...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AKS-560

ALSO, CTD has the fantastic Czech sleep system in stock again for $11.97.  I ordered two of those as well with this order and have 2 from a previous order (think they were in the $20 range then...) and got two different versions with this order.  The older is more of a tan/brown (the czech brown color) and comes with a wool blend blanket and a linen liner -- newer is more olive drab and comes with a polyester blanket and linen liner as well.  These have a very mild surplus smell that washes out when you launder with with vinegar.  The outer bag is rubberized on the interior bottom and exterior is a tent like vinyl.  For the price, it can't be beat.  Considering the S&H barely nudges when adding, why not get?
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MLT-4951

Also, I saw this ridiculous CZ pistol bayonet on their front page that's CZ-USA branded... Sharing for a laugh.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-CZ-11900

EDIT: They also have USGI nylon slings for $6 if you need a starter sling for your VZ or any rifle -- it'll be more comfortable than the thinner genuine Czech slings: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MIL-2172

And their military surplus link: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/CategoryListing.aspx?catid=125
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 06:07:36 PM by RSR »

Offline JDA70

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 08:39:01 PM »
Any thoughts on Century vs Czechpoint?

I try and avoid those debates.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=38510.0

Thanks for that. 

I know absolutely nothing about either company and next to nothing about the products ... I'm just trying to do some due diligence before purchasing. Money is a factor but I am content to save and wait if the benefits dictate that. Above all this will be my only rifle for some time so I just want to pick something solid :)


What I did was read, read and read some more. I think I read just about every post here
and also at http://www.canadiangunnutz.com Watched a lot of video to on You Tube.

529 for the American vz.58 aka C.A.I. vz2008 was a really good deal at the time in
my mind I just couldn't pass up.

I'm basically testing the platform out to see if I really want to stay with it.
So far so good. For a long time I wanted a VEPR AK but I may just stay with the vz.58
for a number of reason such as...

Weighs 7 pounds
7.62x39
Milled Receiver
30 round mags with Bolt Hold Open built in.
Bayonet
Many Butt Stock Options
Threaded Barrel for Muzzle Brakes / Flash Hider and Suppressors.
Bolt Hold Open Button on Receiver.
Striker Fired
Short Stroke Gas Piston System
Simple Trigger Group Design

If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline darink300zx

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2014, 11:44:54 AM »
I ordered one the other day when I saw it on sale on psa website. Funny I've been a member here for a while, big cz75 clone fan, and most of my posts are in that regard. Can't wait to get the vz2008. I have a couple of aks (yugo and maadi) and look forward to this lighter weight rifle in the same caliber and similar looks, although functionally completely different. I am mainly into ars, have a couple, and in the middle of building another, hence reason I was on psa's website.

Anyway, glad to see there is a section here all about the vz58, looks like I gotta lot of reading to do. Can't wait for it to ship. Thanks for all the great info.

Darin.

Offline ReverendOlaf

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2014, 11:04:17 AM »
I'm honestly thinking of "investing" in buying some at this price.  Save them for a rainy day, when they may well sell for 2-3x the price in 5 - 10 years, with little to no risk they will lose value.  Worst case scenario, you have a few extra VZs!

Offline Cheapo

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2014, 01:29:25 PM »
Has anyone's VZ shipped yet from the sale? Ordered mine Monday and its still "processing" (even though they charged my card last week). On their website it says allow up to 5 days for shipping and right below that it says allow for 15 days lol. Confusing.  :o

Offline dweeldreyer

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 03:43:13 PM »
I could also not resist getting my second VZ at that price.  Ordered on Monday the ninth also, just got notified that it shipped today.