VZ2008 with genuine VZ58 gas piston?

[Vlad the Inhaler]

Hello all. I just purchased a VZ2008 as an inexpensive plinker rifle and so far really like it. I was one of the lucky ones that got a the full supplemental cache of add-ons (perfect, early bayonet, nice scabbard from 69', 5 mags with 3 of them perfect, full cleaning kit, sling, etc.) plus a clean rifle for what it's worth. First time at the range and 100 rounds went exactly were I was aiming from 50-75 yards, so all in all happy considering I got $150 worth of "stuff" making this roughly a $350 7.62x39 rifle which is still cheaper and lighter than a comparable AK rifle with folding stock.

Now, before it was fired, I examined the internals carefully, and discovered issues with the gas piston itself. It doesn't appear to be surplus (chrome plated) but rather new and powder coated? I removed the spring and reinserted the piston, and manually worked it back and forth while rotating the piston rod. I discovered it was catching in a particular spot. The rod itself is true, but there was apparently high spots cast into both ring landings. I took the piston, stuck the spring end into a hand drill, and knocked down the outer landing with a smith stone, then reinserted and tried manually working again. This was when the high spots appeared as they cross-scuffed the polished edges from the stone. I worked it a little more and also had to work the support collar (the 3rd ring at the end near the spring that supports the backside of the piston rod) to get the least amount of resistance and smooth out the operation of the piston (talking a few thousandths here). All shells extracted successfully.

Now, I'd like to install a chromed VZ58 gas piston instead of my questionable piece. Does anyone see any issues with those? (legal, fitment, extra fouling, etc.) I'm assuming since it has the chrome finish, it'll be easier to clean as well? Also, how often do you guys clean the gas piston port? What are you using to clean further up in the shroud where the piston top rests?

[vblue42]

The piston on the 2008 is a US made 922r part so it needs to be replaced with an equal US made part. Bonesteel Arms has US made chrome lined pistons.

http://bonesteelarms.com/VZ-58-US-made-gas-piston-CNC-23151.htm

[TJNewton]

I don't think that the Century piston is necessarily questionable.  I just had to do the same thing, but to a much greater extent, to the gas piston on a surplus SKS I just got.  The gas piston in the SKS would not even fit into the gas tube.  It took quite a bit of polishing in the same way you did to your Century piston.  Yours should work fine, especially after your handiwork.

If you do get a surplus gas piston, I think you'll still be 922r compliant.  Please research this exhaustively to your own satifisfaction, but I believe that the VZ rifle needs five US parts to make it compliant (no more than 10 foreign parts of 15 total parts counted).  The Century VZ2008 uses a US made muzzle brake, barrel, receiver, disconnector, sear, and gas piston, for a total of 6 US made parts.  That leaves you one part extra to switch out to something foreign made and still be compliant.  I emphasize -- please research this for yourself to be sure that I'm not mistaken and for you own legal safety.

I clean the gas port with Q-tips and Gunscrubber, before I clean the barrel.  I clean the shroud with saturated patches wrapped around the end of a toothbrush.  For the housing where the end of the gas piston and spring go, I use the brush that comes in the VZ cleaning kit.  In fact, that brush is excellent for cleaning all tubed areas, including the chamber, the inside of the carrier, the inside of the striker, and just about anywhere on any rifle.  It's a real time saver.

[RSR]

CNC Warrior and Bonesteel both sell the same piston.

[4xphate]

podmanicky on ebay has brand new for I think 15$ with spring. Think apex has them also.

[Sheepdog]

922r is a consideration. Remember, 922r doesn't count the number of US made parts. But the number of imported parts. On a vz. 58 of any kind. You're not allowed to use more than 10 imported parts. That's out of a total of 15 counted parts by the ATF.

1 receiver
2 barrel
3 barrel extension/muzzle device
4 bolt
5 bolt carrier
6 trigger
7 sear
8 disconnector
9 gas piston
10 magazine body
11 magazine follower
12 magazine floorplate
13 pistol grip
14 buttstock
15 handguards

These are the 15 parts the ATF counts in 922r for vz. 58 pattern rifles.

Century uses a total of 6 US made parts for compliance. Which is one more than the minimum required:

Century vz2008 rifles use
1 receiver
2 barrel
3 muzzle device
4 disconnector
5 sear
6 gas piston

So if your gun is stock, like you bought it. Then you can us a piston from any country. But if you replaced any of the above six parts with a foreign made part. The piston needs to be US made. Places you can buy those are listed.

So in short (should have read more carefully). TJNewton is right.

[RSR]

The first edition of century was a stainless piston and some weren't of appropriate hardness, bent and caused jams.

This second edition seems properly hardened, but isn't ideal for both rough machining and long term weapon cleanliness.

The CNC Warrior/Bonesteel piston is $30 and chromed.  For me it's a 922r part that's equivalent if not superior quality to the original Czech.  It's an easy upgrade and worth the slight cost premium for an always in 922r part.

CNC Warrior and Bonesteel have some good muzzle devices, but there is a much wider range of muzzle devices available if you don't have to keep 922r compliant...

Handguards -- Bonesteel are a great option if you want to modernize and increase your 922r. 

Buttstocks -- The stormwerkz adapaters make it easy to run US made stocks (personally, I'd lean towards their Universal and the Ace stocks, and definitely their folding stock hinge, over AR but both options are available).  Your call as there are some great Czech options as well.  Either are better options than Mako IMO.

Pistol Grips -- there are some great Czech ones as well as US Ronin ones.  Not really a fan of the FAB compared to Czech and Ronin.

You're receiver and barrel you aren't going to change, same with the bolt and bolt carrier. 

For VZ2008s your trigger, sear and disconnector are US made, and Bonesteel offers an option for CSA VZ58s with their non-ideal factory trigger setups. 

CSA VZ58s make you use their plastic parts in milsurp mags, which is just ridiculous.  Just don't...  Configure your weapon itself for 922r.

[Vlad the Inhaler]

Great responses everyone and very helpful. I didn't realize the piston was a 922r part, but seeing as it's not chromed I suspected something was up considering a real part can be had for $18-30 with a chromed finish, so....

As this point, the rifle is actually fun to shoot as-is (I did better with this than my buddy's AK's, AR, etc. that are decked out to the 9's with add-ons), even with the iron sights which I thought were CAI pieces, but apparently not? They just painted them? The first time shooting it and the rounds were hitting where it was aimed (I was standing and holding off shoulder) so I'm gonna leave it basically stock (why mess with what works?) for now. Though, a US made muzzle break will be added eventually, and man does this thing heat up. Not a fan of mismatched hardware, so it's an all or nothing scenario. Gotta wait and see how this holds up long term before dropping cash on rails, etc.  I take it there's no problems adding a hand grip up front? That'd be a nice way to hold it while not cooking your hand.

Interesting to know the piston issues are with others as well. The main concern with keeping mine in there is potential rusting and pitting from the areas I exposed, as well as after one outing to the range the tube was pretty fouled up and the piston was back to being sticky, hence I was asking about the cleaning of it. If in theory, these are supposed to be in military battle scenarios, I'm wondering how many rounds those guys would go through before cleaning it? I was hoping a chromed piston would weather the fouling better since it's smooth?

I was looking at Ohio Ordinance for a surplus piston, but I'll check into Bonesteel too. Ohio Ordinance is only 35 miles from me and seem to have the best prices. Also, just for the sake of argument, how can one tell if it's a US made piston or not? My piston doesn't seem to have any markings on it, though if you look REALLY close to the 2nd landing, there's a micro imprint which I thought was a blemish, but now I'm thinking it's intentional?

[TJNewton]

Not sure how to tell if a gas piston is US made.  Not sure how to tell if most of the other parts are actually US made.  For my SKS, the 922r compliant US-made parts have "USA" or "Made in US" etc marked somewhere.  I haven't seen anthing like that on my VZ2008.

I would get another gas piston, probably chrome surplus or the Bonesteel/CNC Warrior compliant ones.  You could always keep the one that came with your rifle as a backup.  Always good to have a backup.

Speaking of spare parts, when I first got my VZ2008 I got some spare springs, striker, firing pin, etc.  If I had to do it over, I would have gotten a parts kit instead, as it would have been money better spent.  Most kits are around $300, and Ohio Ordnance Works has a kit that, unlike other kits, also includes four mags, pouch, sling, bayonet, and cleaning kit.  Just the mags themselves markedly increase the total value of their kit.  It's not a small investment, but well worth the money if the VZ2008 is going to be one of your primary rifles.  Buying just the back up springs, striker, extractor, gas piston, and few other small parts, I was up to almost $150.

If you do decide to buy them singly, shop around as different vendors have wildly different prices on the same parts.  Ohio Ordnance Works has some of the best prices on single parts, as well as Bonesteel and Numrich.  If you're patient, and don't need the parts that week, you can cruise Ebay in your spare time and find some killer deals.

[RSR]

Most VZ2008 US Made Century made parts all have a small capital "C" stamped on them...

Springs are something that will best serve you with something new.  And replace them from the start on your rifle to avoid unnecessary wear and tear (Century uses used parts kits springs versus Czechpoint/CSA using all new -- a big part of the felt recoil supposedly being more w/ Century rifles than CSA ones).

EDIT: Came to a good analogy -- springs are to weapons what tires are to cars.  A part that wears faster than the rest and needs more regular maintenance/replacement, and if neglected can lead to abrupt wear and tear and destruction of the item (cars are traction and totaling due to losing control, weapons are the bolt carrier battering the receiver leading to premature wear of the bolt/bolt carrier as well as eventual cracking of the receiver...). 
If you don't run used tires (I would never) then why would you run used springs?

If you search around there are good sources.  There's a guy that sells new US made piston springs that are high quality. 

New Old Stock striker and recoil springs are available on Ebay most of the time.  And I believe all the springs Czechpoint sells in their parts catalog are new.

Good spare parts that covers all of your bases: NOS Ebay Striker Spring X2 ($9), NOS Ebay Mainspring X2 ($15), NOS Ebay Bolt Kit (Firing Pin, Extractor, Extractor Spring, $20),  NOS Striker vz58parts@hotmail.com or Bonesteel ($15), New Piston Spring X2 vz58parts@hotmail.com ($10), and NOS Ebay Trigger Feather Spring ($15).
TOTAL of $118 plus shipping for parts you're best served with new.  Add in the CNC Warrior piston and you're still below $150 (half the price of a parts kit) before shipping.

Otherwise, locking blocks, spare complete bolts and bolt carriers, spare topcovers, etc, are really a wash pricewise for a parts kit versus a la carte.

[TJNewton]

I just went on Ohio Ordnance Works site and added up their singly priced parts.  You would spend about $275, not including shipping, and that would contain only about  2/3 of their parts kit, and you'd be shy the sights, bolt, firing pin, extractor, stock etc, as well as the magazines.  Their entire parts kit with the accessories was $290, shipped.

On Bonesteel's site, and his prices and shipping are reasonable, if you buy every surplus part he has, you're going to spend in excess of $250, and that's only about 50% of what a parts kit includes.  Again, no magazines.  Shipping not included.

Numrich, while also reasonable, you'll get a similar tally.

So if you've invested your money, thoughts, emotions, whatever, into the VZ platform, a parts kit is much better value.  Go on the sites and add it up.  You're likely to buy one of every part they have, spend just under $300, and still be short a considerable chunk of spare parts. 

Will you need all those spare parts?  Probably not.  It's something you have to weigh.  It's nice to have all those tiny pieces.  I was cleaning my VZ2008 recently, removed the top hand guard, and the pin came out and the miniscule plunger that holds the pin in went sailing across the room.  I was lucky that it landed smack in the middle of a wide, smooth surface and not behind something.  I would never have found it.  Purely lucky.

I wish I would have made the initial investment in the kit instead of doing a portion of it piecemeal.  It would have saved me time and money.  It is, however, a substantial upfront cost.  Be sure the VZ rifle is worth it to you.

[RSR]

$1.89 for that plunger pin at CNCWarrior.  And 99 censt for the spring for the same.  Both new.

I agree with TJ that the parts kits are a great value (relative to other weapon systems), especially if you plan to build a new rifle or just want an assortment of spare parts to resell or pick the best to put in your rifle...  However, the parts kits have a bunch of stuff you will not ever need unless building a complete rifle (or complete disassemble your rifle in shag carpert...), and when you price out the springs and stuff that you'll really want in new condition anyways, it becomes less of a value if you're just looking to pickup spare parts for the most common points of failure...

[Vlad the Inhaler]

Wow, thanks for the great welcome mat RSR and TJ! It's refreshing to join a forum where people are not only polite, but mindful and NOT afraid to say more than one or two sentences. CNCWarrior has some really good prices and I'm planning on getting one of their pistons instead; especially if it's actually CNC'd as the tolerances should be right-on, plus a "new" chromed piston for $30 is a deal for "made in the USA". Also, they have really good prices for muzzle breaks, so I'll be ordering one of theirs once I can decide which one to actually get. The recoil of this gun isn't bad with the skeleton stock, and I barely noticed any rise as follow-up shots were quick for me w/o any real focusing, so think a generic cushion pad and a decent hider/break will work. Can't beat their prices over the other places that want a small fortune for a break. Been thinking about some sponge insulation tubing wrapped for a stealth cheek riser. Although I had to laugh after shooting this as it felt I had been punched a bunch of times by a 4 year old below my left eye

Some very valid and great points made above as I had no idea they reused springs. I had looked at parts kits awhile back before committing to buying the VZ08 as I thought this could be something that could be retrofitted with a chromed VZ58 barrel, and thought a $250 "parts" kit that comes with the barrel, etc. would work, but since that's obviously not viable, and these (Green Mountain?) barrels are OK, this is actually a perfectly OK gun for me as-is.

I have noticed my mag catch spring might be a little on the soft side, though part of the problem is some of my mags have a VERY subtly different catch, leading them to be looser than the rest as they aren't engaging the catch correctly. The angle of the mag's catch ramp is longer (think a scalene triangle) on some of the mags, where the couple mags I have that DO engage correctly have a catch that's more along the lines of equilateral triangle where it's more of an abrupt "nub" that extends out as opposed to a ramp (did they make subtle alterations over the years, or possibly make improvements? The casting of the catches are pretty different but hard to spot unless side-by-side). I was wondering if a new spring would help or if I needed to alter the angle (to be more nub-like than a scalene that ramps down) or actually both. There's minimal wobble with the correct engaging ramps, but my last round seems to not want to feed although everything before it does. A few times I've removed the mag and the last round falls out. Also looked like the round's slug hit on something at a hard angle as the tip was gouged slightly. Only used the one mag though as I hadn't discovered why the others were loose yet.

I also noticed a strange anomaly in the receiver on the rails for the bolt. It looks like the lock had been compressed into the top rails (both sides) leaving 2 little crush indents in the rail about half-way in the middle. I could feel it when manually cycling the bolt as a slight hang spot. Anyone else have this "feature"? I ended up smith stoning the rails to smooth everything out (along with knocking down any unsightly machine markings on anything that moves with the bolt) and that helped smooth out the feel while racking (though the indents were too deep to completely remove but at least the excess was smoothed), though there's a distinct "effort" difference between the racking all the way back or just 70% of the way back, which seems to be part of the design rather a flaw? Like it's really evident which spring is being compressed while pulling the bolt back say 60-70% of the way, then any further the second spring becomes noticeable. Can anyone else describe their bolt's "smoothness" while racking? I'm interested in hearing about VZ58 as well as VZ08 for comparisons? Quick racking and releasing it's not very noticeable. Just when slowly racking the bolt. I'm a sponge with new firearms and like to learn them inside and out and get to be 250% comfortable with handling them and learning what's norm and what's not.

[RSR]

Springs on the Century guns are hit or miss. 

I've had 4 of the guns now, kept 2 with 3rd coming a month or so.

One had a striker spring so worn that it bent and binded the action when cocking rather than compressing...  Put it on the other way and it worked.  Some springs super rusty and soft.  Others like new.  Others in between but parkerized apparently during the Century build process.

But for the negligible cost, it's worth at a minimum replacing the striker and recoil springs and keeping your current as spares if that's all you can afford... 

The parts kits are really hit or miss too.  I had one that I got traded and traded off and it's muzzle was very worn out of concentricity (presumably from over-aggressive military cleaning regimes)...  CSA's chrome barrels are all new production these days, and chrome bore with a bad muzzle and SBR length is far less preferable than a new production barrel or two that I can swap muzzle devices on and give whatever barrel treatment I decide I want (I think nitriding is preferable...).

Three of the best videos for understanding the VZ58 action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d06hCqcuvsE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQMh85CnCZE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IteV4ERZWM

On mags, not sure if the catch is different or if it's just worn.  Remember these are aluminum mags with a steel mag catch...

I haven't found a little play in the mags to cause any functional issues.  The major thing is you want your mag's springs to be sufficiently strong to activate the bolt catch.  Czechpoint sells new mag springs.

As you'll probably see in the video, the jumping you're feeling is probably the bolt carrier passing over the disconnector.  You'll usually feel that movement in your trigger group as well.  With enough force (pulling all the way back and releasing), it jumps over.  If trying to ride the carrier, it'll hangup...

Another cause of binding is the recoil spring guide rod sometimes has a half twist in it that can cause issues.  With a full twist, it'll bind and you won't be able to withdraw the bolt all the way.

Welcome and enjoy!

[RSR]

Wow, thanks for the great welcome mat RSR and TJ! It's refreshing to join a forum where people are not only polite, but mindful and NOT afraid to say more than one or two sentences. CNCWarrior has some really good prices and I'm planning on getting one of their pistons instead; especially if it's actually CNC'd as the tolerances should be right-on, plus a "new" chromed piston for $30 is a deal for "made in the USA". Also, they have really good prices for muzzle breaks, so I'll be ordering one of theirs once I can decide which one to actually get.

CNC Warrior makes excellent stuff.  I've never had a complaint.  I only use their receivers for custom builds, even though they're 2-5x as expensive as the ORF/AWO receivers...  They also make all of Bonesteel's items for VZs and AKs.  He designs and they manufacture and both sell...

My complaint about their muzzle brakes is that there are many options, not US made, that are much more effective all round performers.  The Slovak brake they sell and copied from the Czechs was designed primarily to combat muzzle rise during full auto fire -- as civilians with semi auto rifles, that's not our primary need... 

And when compared with available Czech options, the designs of their brakes are just a little funky and look out of place on the VZ58 IMO.  The only must have of their selection for me are the phantom flash hiders...

That said, I have a small order of Zendl/GunExpert muzzle brakes coming and will be doing a small group buy on here for folks to help me test and evaluate.  If there's an interest, will probably do a larger one at a later date if folks want it. 
My current favorite brakes are all Czech made -- Slovak Baffle, Slovak Slit w/ much wider side ports for more stability and recoil reduction, and Bulldog Brake for short.
I'd actually probably place the Slovak with a slight edge over the Special Forces from an exclusively brake performance perspective.  The appeal of Spec Forces is all around performance -- brake and flashhider in one (it's a very good brake).