Author Topic: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero  (Read 11666 times)

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Offline suhw33t

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VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« on: August 14, 2014, 07:51:29 PM »
So, I was able to get to the range today and zero my rifle.

Here's my range report.

I decided to try and use the "Russian AK zero" method, since the leaf sight is very similar, and ballistics with the 7.62x39 should be the same (Although as far as rifle twist lengths go, I have no idea)

So I set rear sight to 100m and place sight in target at 25m or in this case (25 yards), and sighted in so rounds are hitting exactly my point of aim.
After zeroing, I set the sight on Battle Sight setting (lowest on scale). This means that I can hit a man-size target any range from 0 to 300m without changing the sight setting.

Here's how I did.



1st group- DARK blue
2nd group- Light blue
3rd - Green
4th - Yellow

All in all I was pretty surprised with the accuracy and am very happy!

I shot a different target to verify zero, and it's on the money I just attribute the slightly higher shots from my POA.



Then I moved to the 50 yard line. Couldn't get to shoot at 100 yds because the range was packed, and here's what happened...



This was from a rapid fire, approx 1 round a second. and....LOL. I didn't realize after moving the rear notch down to the battle zero settting from the 100m setting, how much lower I had to aim to hit where I wanted within short distances. This makes sense, since the Russians taught their troops to aim at the belt buckle. I started walking my shots down by moving my POA to the 1st and 2nd lower ring, but didn't have enough time to get more rounds in the black. You can definitely get decent combat accuracy out of this gun, at least in my opinion.

Anyways, thought this could be useful for some people.




Offline TJNewton

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 08:01:19 PM »
Nice work.  I just sighted in my VZ's as well.  I initially sighted them in so that POI was center of mass, but when I moved to the 100 yard range, the target was so small and the front sight so fat that the target was covered and not adequately visible.  I then changed the sighting to 6 o'clock hold (pumpkin-on-the-post, dot-the-"i", etc) so that I could line up the sights and set them directly beneath the target, providing a good visual when shooting.

It's a good compromise, as it will facilitate slower, more accurate shooting, and if doing drills or any other quick firing, will impact only slightly high -- good enough for steel plates or even clay pigeons.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2014, 09:38:39 PM »
AK and VZ sighting systems work similarly.

Battle sight setting has minute of man accuracy out to ~350m if aiming at belt buckles.  300m zero is a max of less than 18" high due to trajectory.  Here's an AK 47 zeroing card that shows approximate trajectory that our rifles will see w/ a 300m zero as well:



From the VZ58 military manual:
Quote
PART III. Zeroing and zeroing-in of the rifle
General provisions
All rifles supplied to buyers have already been zeroed in by the manufacturer of the rifle.
The zeroing of the rifle should be checked if:
a) after buying the rifle:
- in new rifles only in case of a suspicion that the factory zeroing was impaired
- in old rifles every time
b) whenever unusual deviations in hits or unusual dispersion are found out during
firing
c) after replacement of components or after repairs that might impair the zeroing.
Rifles are again also zeroed in after major repairs by an authorized gunsmith (replacement of the barrel,
rear sight and the like) which impair the zeroing.
Before checking the zeroing, the rifle must be carefully inspected and repaired if necessary. The rifle barrel
must be wiped out dry before firing.
The checking of the zeroing should be carried out under weather conditions that are favorable for firing (on
warm, windless and clear days) in an open shooting range protected against wind or in a indoor shooting
range.
To check the zeroing and to zero in, only 7.62 x 39 mm Ball cartridges should be used. All cartridges must
be of the same production series.
The rifle zeroing should be checked at a range of 100 meters, for which the rear sight is set to the range
?3?. Firing is carried out on a target of at least 1 meter in height and 0.5 meters in width. The zeroing sheet
is fixed to a target.
The zeroing sheet (Fig. 32) is a black rectangle of 35 cm in height and 25 cm in width.
The aiming point is the middle of the bottom edge of the zeroing sheet (a black rectangle) which is to be
approximately on a level with the rifleman?s eye (on the level of the barrel of the rifle being checked, when
sighted).
The normal position of the mean point of impact should be marked on a vertical
line passing through the aiming point. This mean point of impact, when the rear
sight is set to 3, is to be at a height of 28 cm above the aiming point and is, simultaneously,
the checking point when determining the accuracy of the zeroing
of the rifle. Around the checking point, a checking circle of 10 cm in diameter is
circumscribed.
Fig. 32 Zeroing sheet
39.
Zeroing and zeroing-in of the rifle
Firing is done in a prone position with support. A bag filled with sand can be used as a support. When firing,
the left hand holding the rifle must rest on the bag.
Procedure in checking rifle zeroing and zeroing in
The zeroing rifleman loads the magazine with 4 cartridges and fires 4 shots, accurately and steadily aimed
at the middle of the bottom edge of the black rectangle, while during fire, neither the position of the
rifleman?s body nor that of his left hand are changed.
After termination of firing (of those 4 shots), the target is inspected and the dispersion grouping and the
position of the mean point of impact evaluated. The rifle is considered as zeroed in if all the four hits
- in an extreme case 3 of the hits (if one hit shows a great deviation from the others) ? may be covered
with a circle of 18 cm in diameter and if, at the same time, the mean point of impact is not deviated by
more than 5 cm to any side from the checking point.

VZ 58 Military Manual: http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/vz-58-military-manual.pdf

VZ Zeroing sheet: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=3A603B08C111440A!135
Source: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=50980.0
Quote
I measured it after printing and it is exactly to the specifications of the manual.  In order to obtain an accurate printout make sure there is no scaling turned on.  Simply print the two sheets, cut or fold the bottom of the top sheet down to the black and join the two sheets with tape where the black ends on the top of the bottom sheet.  I haven't tried it out yet on the range, but it seems like a really good method for zeroing.

The reason the zero was set for 300m, was that it was better to be on exactly at 300m and off slightly at 100m than on exactly at 100m and off significantly at 300m...

With red dots, you have a choice between a 25/200 yard zero and a 50/100 yard zero w/ this caliber's ballistics:

Only if using your weapon for hunting at known ranges does it really makes sense to alter how the weapon was intended to be sighted in....
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 01:10:06 PM by RSR »

Offline JDA70

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2014, 09:51:33 AM »


I read over that Manual on sighting in a vz.58 and this
is the first target I made in Photoshop CS 3.

I sort of understand how it works. What I don't get is why
they would set the sight to 3?

If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2014, 01:18:28 PM »
The target is a 300m sighting approximation at 100m. 

The reason being that it's better to be on exactly at 300m than off slighty at 100m. 

The sliding sight scale is not exactly precise and there will be variations in receivers as well...  So by sighting in at 300m setting, at worst you're only off slightly at closer ranges...

Apparently 300m and closer was the intended range for which the Warsaw Pact 7.62x39 weapons were intended to be used -- infantry tactics/military doctrine/training/etc...  Remember that excluding airborne troops, all Russian Infantry were mechanized and transported to w/in fighting range in armored vehicles as "Motor Rifle" troops during the Cold War -- when the AK47's fighting doctrine was established... 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 01:21:59 PM by RSR »

Offline JDA70

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2014, 03:34:54 PM »

So you're telling me I need to go back to the range
set a target out at 100 meters and set the sight to 3
instead of 1 where I had it?

Ah ...gee thx.  :D

You buying the ammo?


« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 05:54:43 PM by JDA70 »
If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 02:03:53 PM »
Ha. 

Yes, the circle should be when set @ the 3 notch. 

When moving to 1, you should be near your point of aim, but probably not exact.  The chart is intended to allow for a 300m sight in/ballistics/bullet drop (that high at 100m should result in exact at 300m)

When moving to 1 and aiming at 100m, you should be close, but probably wont be exact.   If you're shooting at 100m exclusively and don't have a use for a "battle sight", then just leave it there... 

By the way, can you post your full sight chart to the cloud, full/proper sized, for others to download?  It's very awesome!

Offline JDA70

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 06:36:36 PM »


I can make it available for download.
It's won't print on a standard sheet of US paper that is 8.3 in ? 11.7 inches.
When I made the sheet I made it in Metric at 50cmx50cm because the Triangle is
25x35cm. So you'll need at least a 20x20"inch sheet to print it on.

PNG File
https://db.tt/IznKWN2H


If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 02:10:36 AM »
There are some good AK zeroing targets here: http://arma-dynamics.com/red-dot-zero-targets.html

The 25 yard, 300 AK zero target should work relatively easily for the VZ58...  Set rear sight to 3 and then shoot it. 

For red dots, I prefer the 25 yard zero, but they also provide a 50 yard zero, 25 yard AK target at the above link too, which can obviously be used for a 25 yard zero too as can any other target at 25 yards.



Worth remembering Soviet doctrine was to aim at the belt buckle w/ 300 yard, universal zero for 7.62x39 round, which would put all 300 yard zero shots for above target in center mass...

They also have a 50 yard zero target at above link too -- and some good AR zero targets too.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 02:15:27 AM by RSR »

Offline gwvt

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Re: VZ 2008 Accuracy/Zero
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 11:58:55 AM »
Nice! I've been looking for some zeroing targets that would print on 8.5x11 sheets.