Author Topic: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison  (Read 13359 times)

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Offline TJNewton

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Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« on: October 05, 2014, 03:37:33 PM »
Finally got some muzzle devices and took my VZ2008 and compared six modes:  Barrel nut, slant brake, slant brake indexed to 12 o'clock, PKM short FH, Phantom FH, and the Knurled Compensater (Czech/Slovak brake), the last three from CNC Warrior.

The least braking, clearly, was the barrel nut.  But not bad.

The slant brake work fine, but with cheek slap, which was reduced, but not eliminated, by twisting it to the reindexed 12 o'clock position. 

The point of impact was the same with the Knurled Compensator and the Phantom FH, and about 3" low at 50 yards with the PKM short.  The best braking was the Knurled Compensator, then the Phantom FH, and then the PKM short.

The difference between the Knurled Compensator and the Phantom FH was very, very slight.  So slight that for my go-to muzzle device I'm choosing the Phantom FH, as at night it will, presumably, minimize shooter blinding and/or reveal of location.  I have not yet tested any of the brakes/FH's at night and am going on reputation.  I did, however, note the HUGE daytime-fireball that the Knurled Compensater put out, as well as the increased loudness, so I think it's safe to assume that the Phantom FH will perform better in the dark.

Offline nickndfl

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2014, 04:42:54 PM »
Where do you get the Phantom PH? 

Is there a tutorial video available on how to move the slant brake to 12 o'clock or remove it entirely and replace it with another type?

Offline TJNewton

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2014, 05:32:55 PM »
CNC Warrior has the Phantom FH.

Moving the slant brake to 12 o'clock requires filing a notch right next to the factory notch.  Go slow as there isn't much room, but it's not hard.

Offline RSR

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 12:34:08 AM »
See this thread: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=62114.0

The Phantom type flash hiders are 3rd best on the market after the Smith Vortex and AAC Blackout respectively.  Neither YHM Phantoms nor Smith Enterprise nor AAC makes a 14x1 RH option.  CNC Warrior and the Czech's both make a version of the Phantom.  If you want to run the two best, you can run CNC Warrior's 14x1 RH to 14x1 LH adapter.  Or re-thread your barrel.

For dual use flash hider brakes, the special forces and zendl are the only effective options that I'm aware of (no, I don't think CNC Warrior's night brake has any flash reduction capabilities)...  In 14x1 LH/AK, the Primary Weapons Systems FSC47 is a good option.

Brakes, it's really a question as to what you're trying to accomplish as to which is best for your purposes...

The Czech Double Baffle Brake is a very cost effective all-around performance option.  The Slovak brakes and Bulldog are more geared to reduce muzzle rise during full auto/rapid than the Baffle.  Reindexing your slant is a significant improvement.  But using the Czech 22mm one over the Century one does have the benefit of a more of a nudge than the push you get from the AK47 slant (it has both a narrower profile and lip that serve to primarily just push the barrel down).

Offline gwvt

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 12:27:27 AM »
Does anyone have any feedback on the Norinco type 84 birdcage flash hider from CNC warrior?
I had pretty much decided on that one due to the shorter length but now am thinking about the Phantom instead.

Offline RSR

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 08:42:04 AM »
Phantoms are newer technology so should conceptually work better. 

Typically they're better than US birdcage flash hiders, which is what the norinco type 84 appears to be copied from. 

The Phantom also usually have knurling at the tip to allow for better glass breaking, CQB clubbing...

Offline Cheesesteak

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 12:00:22 PM »
Man I wish I could put a brake on my Dlink. :-[............without the bs that's involved.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:19:19 PM by Cheesesteak »

Offline RSR

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 05:25:16 PM »
Man I wish I could put a brake on my Dlink. :-[............without the bs that's involved.

If I had a Dtechnic, I would personally buy another and then sell my current, but if you don't have the cashflow, I guess reverse it...  With the new 16" barrels, I think that's the way to go if you want a CSA rifle... 

OR get a Century for your muzzle device fun.  Gunsmithing time on the fixed MD CSAs to swap out is probably $100 or so, so w/ the the PSA deal, you're really only paying an extra $200 for the gun -- when accounting for the $100 accessory pack.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 05:49:43 PM by RSR »

Offline gwvt

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 08:15:48 PM »
The Phantom also usually have knurling at the tip to allow for better glass breaking, CQB clubbing...
Well, there's always the bayonet...
Yeah, it sounds like the phantom makes more sense. It's not that much longer anyway.

Offline Airacuda

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 08:31:39 AM »
I know this topic keeps coming up,I even have a video comparing with and without. However I filmed a random guy at the range, I was not the shooter. I honestly can't tell the difference when I shoot.
  I finally noticed that experienced shooters. I mean like 3gun guys or guys who play a lot, have no improvement with a brake etc. proper form and grip on the shooters part over rides the little thingy on the barrel.
I'm not saying with all guns but for sure the VZ. When it cools off I will put it on the tube and prove it. Now if you just relax and pull the trigger you will see the brakes work....but Hardcore shooters don't shoot all relaxed. The rifle is being controlled/Driven so to speak.Kinda like 90 percent of people think you steer/turn a motorcycle by leaning. When it is actually your hands/arm inputs to the bars. People don't notice that leaning to the right makes the bars go left which turns the bike right....Racers know.

Offline RSR

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 04:46:57 PM »
Generally speaking, muzzle brakes provide the most gains with full power, full caliber loads like .308+ for the average shooter; any load when under high magnification and needing to make follow up shots; or under rapid/full auto fire.  Otherwise, their necessity is debatable for civilian single shot shooting with full caliber reduced power assault rifle cartridges like 7.62x39 or small caliber high velocity cartridges like the 5.45x39 or 5.56 where for both types/philosophies of cartridges minimizing recoil and maximizing controllability and accuracy under full auto/rapid fire where strong drivers of the development of said cartridges.

BUT, each muzzle brake performs differently depending on its intended use case (e.g., the classic slovak brake is best for mitigating muzzle rise under full auto while the baffle brake is best for mitigating recoil which helps both with follow up shots and shooter hesitation/anticipation issues that affect accuracy [actually it's best at lateral muzzle stability followed by recoil mitigation but recoil reduction is greater on this brake than any other I've tried on the VZ58 though all brakes by design result in some reduction in felt recoil -- those brakes that redirect gas backwards rather than just to the side counteract rather than just reduce recoil however]).  Others like the Zendl is designed for shoulder mounted shooting whereas the baffle would perform better from a bench, etc.  And generally speaking all brakes on the VZ58 that increase muzzle stability do also help to mitigate cheek slap. 
Essentially brakes control for up/down movement (i.e., muzzle rise), side to side (i.e., lateral stability), and forward/back movement (i.e., felt recoil) and each brake's design characteristics will make it stronger across certain criteria than others.  Some like the Zendl also reduce muzzle flash, but no brake will outperform a well designed flash hider in that respect...  Again, decide what you want your muzzle device to accomplish and then pick from available options accordingly.

So to test, you nee to evaluate whether your specific brake does what its designed to do under those specific use cases rather than whether using a brake is generally better than no brake for a single shot and/or across all use cases...  At a minimum evaluate it use case by use case.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 07:42:20 PM by RSR »

Offline GWL

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 04:49:43 PM »
IWhen it is actually your hands/arm inputs to the bars. People don't notice that leaning to the right makes the bars go left which turns the bike right....Racers know.
The very first thing I taught my children when they were learning how to ride. Both are adults now and hard core Harley riders.


Offline RSR

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 05:13:58 PM »
The Phantom also usually have knurling at the tip to allow for better glass breaking, CQB clubbing...
Well, there's always the bayonet...
Yeah, it sounds like the phantom makes more sense. It's not that much longer anyway.

Ha, I think they're separate use cases. 

Personally, my foremost reason for a muzzle device is in helping to keep the barrel from getting crud in it.  Everything else is a bonus.

Offline gwvt

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2014, 04:11:54 PM »
Awhile ago I got a Czech muzzle nut from Apex and a Phantom style flash hider from CNC Warrior (as well as the Apex buttpad) but I hadn't had a chance to try them out until today. First, I have to say that the PFH is very nicely machined - I'm pretty impressed with the quality of the product and the hole-saw-like knurling on the end is pretty intimidating looking. It fit well on my rifle with only having to back it off a few degrees from fully tight to get it to engage the pin. It certainly fits tighter than the slant brake that came with it. FWIW, the bayonet does still fit with it on, which I wasn't sure about. One thing I found amusing is that when I release the bolt or dry fire it, the PFH rings like a small chime. I guess it does it when firing it but of course I can't hear it.

I tried it with the slant brake, muzzle nut and PFH and my admittedly subjective results are similar to TJNewton's impressions. The muzzle nut seems to shoot softer than the slant brake and the PFH seems to reduce the muzzle rise noticeably.  What I noticed most with the PFH is that I definitely am able to re-acquire the target more quickly than with either of the others, especially the slant brake. Another thing I noticed with both is that when shooting out beyond 25 yds or so the POI was a few inches to the right with the slant brake but with the PFH especially, that seemed to move more towards the center, although it still seems to need a bit of adjustment. I was waiting to adjust the windage until I replaced the slant brake for this reason, now all I need is an adjustment tool.
Personally, my foremost reason for a muzzle device is in helping to keep the barrel from getting crud in it.  Everything else is a bonus.

Yeah, the PFH definitely feels like it protects the end of my barrel more than the muzzle nut or the stupid slant brake. 

I never had much of an issue with cheek slap or recoil with the thing (I really think you just have to commit to a firm weld on the folder, however counter-intuitive it may seem) but at this point, with the foam padding, buttpad and PFH it is hardly a consideration at all.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2014, 04:20:10 PM by gwvt »

Offline jb2sea

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Re: Muzzle Brake/Flash Hider Comparison
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2014, 05:10:34 PM »
Is it more cost effective to have the barrel rethreaded and get an AK muzzle device?  I haven't yet looked into the cost of the choices for the VZ2008.  I assume there are a bunch more choices for the AK than the VZ.

Any chance for some sort of table, or at least a synopsis, of the various muzzle devices available for the VZ2008?