Author Topic: USPSA and IDPA Division questions  (Read 2499 times)

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Offline reshp1

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USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« on: February 09, 2015, 01:24:48 PM »
I want to shoot some competitions this year, one of my local clubs runs USPSA, the other IDPA. I'll probably end up doing both at some point. The two pistols I want to run are:

1. CZ-75B Stainless, converted to SAO with flat trigger, CGW "Ring" hammer and sear, FPB and lifter removed.

2. CZ P-09, CGW "Race" hammer, short reset kit (disco, lifter, FP), reduced power springs.

I think the 75B would put me in limited because of the SAO and externally visible mods for USPSA correct? What about IDPA? ESP? or is it even legal at all (due to FPB removal)?

The P-09 I think would put me in limited as well by the letter of the law, but is the hammer "close enough" for production division at club level matches? I don't really care either way, except that I would run the safety and locked and cocked if I got bumped to limited (or more likely just run the 75B).

I'm not totally clear on where I would be for IDPA, either by the letter of the rules or in practice at lower level "just for fun" competitions.

Thanks in advance for any info on this.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:31:40 PM by reshp1 »

Offline Canuck44

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2015, 01:30:58 PM »
I want to shoot some competitions this year, one of my local clubs runs USPSA, the other IDPA. I'll probably end up doing both at some point. The two pistols I want to run are:

1. CZ-75B Stainless, converted to SAO with flat trigger, CGW "Ring" hammer and sear, FPB and lifter removed.

2. CZ P-09, CGW "Race" hammer, short reset kit (disco, lifter, FP), reduced power springs.

I think the 75B would put me in limited because of the SAO and externally visible mods for USPSA correct? What about IDPA? ESP? or is it even legal at all?

The P-09 I think would put me in limited as well by the letter of the law, but is the hammer "close enough" for production division at club level matches? I don't really care either way, except that I would run the safety and locked and cocked if I got bumped to limited (or more likely just run the 75B).

I'm not totally clear on where I would be for IDPA, either by the letter of the rules or in practice at lower level "just for fun" competitions.

Thanks in advance for any info on this.

Both guns would meet ESP Divisions for IDPA. 

Take Care

Bob

Je Suis Charlie

Offline reshp1

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2015, 01:42:19 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply. Doesn't removing the FPB on the 75B make that gun not IDPA legal in any division?

Offline Canuck44

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2015, 01:45:43 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply. Doesn't removing the FPB on the 75B make that gun not IDPA legal in any division?

Sorry missed that.  Yes you cannot remove the FPB and use the gun in IDPA. 

Take Care

Bob
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Offline 2morechains

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2015, 04:17:43 PM »
I'm pretty sure the CGW Race Hammer on the P-09 is not an approved modification for USPSA Production division.  The rationale is it is an external mod that is not OEM on any other CZ pistol.  The CZ Custom race hammer on the other hand is offered as OEM on CZ Shadows so that makes it a legal mod for USPSA Prod if you run the gun in DA mode for the first shot.  Changing out the hammer for the CZC one is not hard, just costs $$

But yes, P-09 is legal for Limited or Limited-10 as is with CGW hammer.  The 75B with the FPB also legal for Limited and L-10. 

Far be it from me to suggest that some clubs aren't following the division rules for local matches in either game.  Mostly we rely on shooter integrity, as well as some vigilant RO's to spot illegal gear. 


Offline Canuck44

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 06:38:47 PM »
I suspect the OP wants to play by the rules and not be a cheater anf that is why he is asking the question.

Take Care

Bob
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Offline 2morechains

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 03:24:21 AM »
And my answer to the OP in no way implied that he should cheat. 

Offline andrewtac

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 06:39:56 AM »
To answer your question would the cgw be close enough for local matches.  Probably, someone would have to catch you and then they'd have to call you out.  I doubt anyone will notice and if they do most won't care.  Buy the other hammer if you are worried or it happens.

Offline Canuck44

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 12:47:12 PM »
And my answer to the OP in no way implied that he should cheat.

Yes I know.  I am amazed when folks suggest to do something because they likely won't get caught.  What about the folks who are competing with legal equipment?  We all are at the match to have fun, meet a bunch of folks and compete among ourselves.  There is a "not for competition" rule so why not declare if your gun doesn't meet the rules.

Unlike IPSC, IDPA is founded on club matches and it is there we expect the rules to be followed.  They are not written for Sanctioned Matches only.

Take Care

Bob
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Offline reshp1

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 02:56:08 PM »
No, I don't want to intentionally cheat, nor did I take any offense to any comments. Like I said, I'm just looking to go and shoot, not put down a top score, so it doesn't really matter what division I get put in to me. I just wanted to get an idea for what to expect on match day so I can prepare accordingly (like installing the decocker in the P-09 vs the manual safety).

Offline twowheels

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 03:54:20 PM »
I run legal equipment but I've been at the games for a few years.  But, for your first couple times shooting a game, I don't think anyone would consider it cheating to show up with what you have and shoot for fun.  You might want to email the match director, tell him what you have and your concerns, and see if he minds if you show up and shoot for fun.vvIf he says don't shoot, you have your answer.  If he says otherwise, have at it.  If you get hooked, which is probably what will happen, then you have an excuse to buy a shadow, modify what you have, or build a legal gun.   

Offline Canuck44

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Re: USPSA and IDPA Division questions
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 04:26:37 PM »
I run legal equipment but I've been at the games for a few years.  But, for your first couple times shooting a game, I don't think anyone would consider it cheating to show up with what you have and shoot for fun.  You might want to email the match director, tell him what you have and your concerns, and see if he minds if you show up and shoot for fun.vvIf he says don't shoot, you have your answer.  If he says otherwise, have at it.  If you get hooked, which is probably what will happen, then you have an excuse to buy a shadow, modify what you have, or build a legal gun.   

There is a not for competition section now for IDPA Club matches where folks are welcome to use non complying equipment to play IDPA with.  They get their scores etc No worries. 

Take Care

Bob
Je Suis Charlie