Author Topic: VZ2008 picture thread  (Read 111451 times)

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Offline Airacuda

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2015, 08:03:20 PM »
CNCwarrior has a nice variety of hiders and brakes. I personally go with flash hiders. I may not get to choose what time I have to pop a cap in a Zombie. Bare or with a Muzzle brake you'll be blind after the 1st round if it's dark 30. Though it doesn't look like much in daylight, it will kill your night vision on the spot.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2015, 08:57:50 PM »

I agree that it is nice to have but, my $ is going towards other upgrades first. Hopefully by then, there be more TBR options outv there.

Each of us has their own requirements and drivers.  Certainly for other functions, aesthetics and "the cool factor" there are plenty of other upgrades to consider. Been there, done that, there again, there still. 

Being of the age group where the iron sights ofter become hard to find when driving a rifle toward a target esp. in certain lighting conditions, for me augmented target sighting is a top item and probably first on the list.  Having said that, if you ever found yourself with the desire to change out mags quickly, the TBR (and TMR ) is priceless.  IMO, the TBR/TMR combo should have been incorporated as part of the original Military Vzor 58 design - if not for G.I. Cannon-Fodder-Joe, certainly as a standard enhancement for Special Forces and Rapid Assault Teams.

Bear in mind that the VZ58 was never really intended to be modernized from its current form...  It's replacement was always to be the Lada/CZ 2000 and eventually that became the Bren.  The 5.56 VZ58 didn't come about until after CZ-UB sold the manufacturing rights to Czech Small Arms...

Regarding history, the VZ58 was developed in 1956 or so to replace the VZ52.  The only major change that appears to have insisted upon by the Soviets (Warsaw Pact only being formed a year earlier and still working out its kinks) was the standardization in 7.62x39 Russian rather than the 7.62x45 Czech (in brief, the Czechs were right and had they kept that cartridge I'm convinced the VZ58 would be considered the best assault rifle in history, nonpariel.  As is it is simply recognized as one of the best but will always be overshadowed by the Kalashnikov and AR just due to their much wider proliferation...  Regardless, 7.62x45 had ballistics similar to the 6.8 spc, and the 6.8spc's designer actually is really pushing the military, spec ops community, and others to adopt the 7x46 UIAC, Universal Intermediate Assault Cartridge, as the new standard. You can read more here: http://www.7x46mmuiac.com/ ).
Back to the Soviets and the VZ58... Looking at Vietnam, the Soviets realized our ARs sucked, but they saw the value of small caliber high velocity round.  So they switched to the AK74 with the 5.45x39 (design began in 1967 and began military use in 1974).  During the vietnam era, Eastern European members of the Warsaw Pact had a lot of mini-revolutions/uprisings/other attempts at lessening the Soviet Union's control over their countries' central government.  In the Czech Republic, this happened in 1968.  (Read more about the Prague Spring here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring ).  The result of these uprisings is that the Soviets became more and more involved and controlling regarding all major decisions of its "allied" states.   The Cold War also continued to escalate in its arms race and proxy wars...  (VZ58s ending up being supplied to many of these soviet proxy forces.)
Here's the Czech main battle rifle history courtesy of Smalll Arms Defense Journal from that point to today:
Quote
Arrested Development
However, what was modern in the 1960s, in 1970s proved to be expensive and non-modifiable.  As early as 1977 a program was thus started to design a modern replacement chambered for the smaller caliber bullet.  In 1977 Miloslav Fisher of the Brno?s General Machine-Building Plants R&D Center (Vyzkumne vyvojovy ustav zavodu vseobecneho strojirenstvi) or VVU-ZVS (also known as the Prototypa Brno) started the ?Lada S? study, to examine the possibility of re-arming the CSLA with a domestically designed and manufactured rifle, chambered for the Soviet 5.45mm round.  Several years of research and preparations resulted in green-lighting the design in 1984.  The study?s cover name, Lada (a popular Slovakian female first name) became the cover name of the whole program, led by Bohumil Novotny.  It aimed at creating the three gun ?family? of unified design small arms, consisting of a subcarbine with 185 mm long barrel, an automatic rifle with 382 mm barrel and a 577 mm barreled Light Support Weapon.

Thanks to the case deflector the spent cases are thrown clear to the front, enabling ambidextrous use despite the fixed ejection direction. (Martin Helebrant)
The similarity of the concept to the AK-74 family consisting of AKS-74U, AKS-74 and RPKS-74 was not at all accidental.  The new Czechoslovak rifles were downright Kalashnikovian in both idea and detail.  The only points different were the stiffer, slide-on / slide-off receiver cover, peep-style battle-sights, and the Galil-style thumb-operated safety-selector lever, but devoid of the AK-trademark long selector lever / cocking slot cover.

The design was ready by the end of 1985; prototypes were manufactured and tested in 1986.  After many failures and recoveries the third generation of these was finally approved for production in November 1989.  The new rifle was then running perfect, which sadly cannot be said for the state that commissioned it.  In 1989 the Communist Bloc undermined by Gorbachev?s glasnost from one side, and Polish Communists sharing power with Solidarnosc opposition movement from the other, started to fall apart in a rapid ?domino theory? style.  Then in late November and early December came Czechoslovakia?s turn.  After several days of demonstrations, the Communist Party gave way and finally relinquished power in what became known as the Velvet Revolution.

Lada: The Little Orphan
As of February 1990, the Lada system was declared fit for production, but nobody was interested in it any longer.  As the Czechoslovakian program did not involve production of the 5.45x39mm ammunition (as opposed to the Polish one), conversion to the 5.56x45mm was the only logical solution ? more so as the country?s ammunition provider, Sellier & Bellot in Vlasim, was already making the .223 Remington with M193-style FMJ and JSP bullets.

At first there was talk of ordering 300,000 new rifles and a tender was held to choose the system integrator and future manufacturer.  The offer by Czeska Zbrojovka Uhersky Brod (CZUB), a 1936-established national arms maker, was given priority due to its rich experience in individual small-arms manufacture, including the Sa-58 and the vz.61 Skorpion machine pistol manufacture for the CSLA.

But the Army was penniless, and state (at that stage called the Czecho-Slovakia, after what came down in history as the ?hyphen war?) was now on the verge of separation, with political fire being stoked by extremists on either side of the national divide.  Fortunately the ?hyphen war? was the only one fought there, and everything ended peacefully, in what was dubbed the Velvet Divorce.  In 1992 the history of the Czechoslovakia was over after 74 years since November 1918, when Hungary?s and Austria?s Slavic lands were united, forming the new state under the influence of Thomas G. Masaryk, who became the first Czechoslovak president.  As of January 1, 1993 there were two separate states: Slovakia and Czechia (Bohemia).

Now the new rifle was in dire straits indeed ? the smaller the army, the less chance to be manufactured in numbers.  At the same time CZUB got privatized, and as a private enterprise it had to earn what it was to spend on the new rifle design ? not just draw it on the state?s budget, as previously.  For five long years the Lada program got lost from the radar ? gone, but never forgotten.

Enter Mr. Findorak
After the NATO doors were cracked open with the Partnership for Peace, giving a renewed hope of the full membership soon, the NATO-caliber rifle program was once again hauled forth from the backburner.  NATO-caliber ? but not the STANAG magazine: this conversion would have called for a wholesale re-designing of the receiver and so was deemed too expensive.  The new Lada still had an AK-74 compatible magazine ? but was now chambered for the 5.56mm (even though the surviving samples are stamped ?.223?).

Several Czech designers and companies approached CZUB in the meantime, offering other rifles instead.  One of them was Ladislav Findorak, ex-Army officer, who endorsed a delayed blowback system based on Soviet Anatoli Baryshev?s designs.  This was a bold proposition ? a complete weapon family called LCZ, made up of the same design but different size building blocks, which put together were to give anything from automatic rifle up to a .50 cal. heavy machine gun and even a 30mm grenade machine gun.  CZUB partly financed his scheme and tested the resulting weapons, but chose not to continue.  Findorak then started his own company, known under the English-language name of Czech Weapons in Slavicin, but both partners parted on good terms, and CZUB was impressed with Findorak?s ability in weapon designing.

Other than Findorak, two other rifles were considered, one designed by a British team for another English-named Czech company, the Moravian Arms Company and the other option was license from Colt?s to manufacture AR-15 rifles (M16/M4).  CZUB had great designs for the then struggling Colt, but all that was left of it was a less-than-spectacular Colt Z40 pistol ? and the starting of the CZ-USA subsidiary, who now owns Dan Wesson Firearms.

CZ 2000 vs. Project 805
The Army of the Czech Republic (Armada Ceske Republiky, ACR) was once again interested in the new rifle, but this interest eventually failed to bloom into contracts.  The CZUB was now left with no other way than to develop the Lada and find a buyer ? if not at home, then abroad, trying to capitalize on the good standing of the CZ brand and the need for modern Kalashnikov derivatives in Western chambering.  But to sell abroad the Lada needed a name that was (a) sexy and (b) involved ?CZ? to marry it to the brand.  At the turn of the century ?2000? seemed to mesmerize buyers and sellers alike, bringing with it a promise of the modernity ? more so for what was in fact nothing more than a face-lifted AKM.  Thus the CZ 2000 was born, sometime accompanied by the name Lada, sometimes not.  The CZ 2000 was a name used only for PR.  For in-house use, the whole ?Army Rifle Replacement? program was dubbed the Project 805, according to the new classification scheme, in which model numbers were assigned according to the nature of the product.  Assault rifles and SMGs were assigned series 800 ? that?s why the civilian-legal Sa-58 was called the CZ 858, and the 9mm silenced Skorpion prototype with a fixed stock was the XCZ 861.

The New Rifle
It was only in late 2005 that CZUB decided to go whole hog and make their own rifle anew.  The Army was not yet inclined to change the battle rifle for the entire military, but they nevertheless managed to buy a batch of Bushmaster M4A3s for the Special Forces.  The situation could have slipped out of hand if the Army continued to re-arm itself piecemeal, instead of a large-scale re-armament ? so CZUB bolted into action.  A totally new specification was drawn, finally putting the stillborn Lada to rest.  The new rifle was first called the CZ XX, then CZ S805.  The S stood for ?special? to differentiate it from regular CZ 805 (no S), being a tricked-out Lada carbine with rails all over and an ambidextrous selector lever, designed for India (but never bought).

This new design was meant to get CZUB to the forefront of the world?s rifle evolution, constituting a totally new multi-caliber modular platform ? much in the SCAR flavor.  There were to be two sets of building blocks, one (with ?A? in model designation) for three intermediate rounds (5.56?45 mm, 6.8SPC and 7.62?39 mm), and the other (?B?) for rifle calibers ? and that?s not only 7.62?51 mm mind you, but .300 Win Mag as well.  Each of these could have been fitted with three lengths of barrels, to became a Battle Rifle (?1? designator), CQB Carbine (?2?) or the DMR/LSW (?3?) fire support weapon.  Thus a rifle in 5.56mm would be an A1, while a carbine in 7.62?51 mm would be a B2, and so on.
The Bren story continues: http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1083





Wikipedia on the LCZ B20
Quote
The AB-5.45, AB-7.62, AVB-7.62, and LCZ B20 are a series of weapons developed by Russian small arms designer Anatoly F. Baryshev from the 1960s to late 1990s. The mechanism developed by Baryshev allows the latter two of these light weapons to fire full powered rifle ammunition and still be controllable in automatic fire. Due to its firing from an open bolt, they were all unreliable under adverse conditions and inaccurate in single shots which tended to unsuccessfully slam-fire, otherwise the weapon would have apparently worked well. Another variant, the LCZ-B20 was developed in cooperation with Czech company LCZ Group, chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO, but sales were unsuccessful and it was apparently dropped in the late 1990s. However, the LCZ B20 formed the basis of an improved reliable derivative, the ?ZW-556 assault rifle and the ?ZW-762 light machine gun alternative developed by ?ZW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVB-7.62

And the Czech Weapon guns are interesting (and I think probably better and more reliable than the roller delayed systems): http://www.czechweapons.com/en/products/military-weapons/assault-rifle-czw-556/

Point being on all of this was that there was relatively little development by mainstream Army as the VZ58s use continued more than 30 years beyond expected...  Now Slovakia on the other hand has done some interesting development, and they reversed the charging handle and added the trigger finger mag release in addition to a full top rail.  Ultimately this never went into production (CZUB is building a Bren factory in Slovakia for at least some components of production, something like a 3 hour drive between CZUB and this new factory....), but that isn't to say the Bren is superior... That discussion can be had over in the Bren forum...

Here are a few more pics of that modernized VZ I was able to rack down










I hope these help out some. Personally I would kill just to have a version of the stock they have on it, let alone the whole system.

Large version:


So other than the Slovakian Military, much of the VZ58 modernization has come through Canada and w/in the Czech Republic from civilian and/or special units needs best as I understand it. 
GunExpert sells a polymer stock that was adopted by the Czech Military as was/were a variety of railed forends but I believe these were only limited purchases/upgrades (the Czech military is typically severely underfunded -- in fact, the reason the Bren beat the SCAR in their competition seems to be largely that CZUB promised domestic manufacture and a domestic business)...  A lot of Mako, Zendl, GunExpert, KingGuns, Northeast Arms and other products have been approved for military use w/ Czech Armed and Police forces, but I haven't seen/read about any widespread/large military contracts with universal adoption of modernization products, etc.  Then again, I don't read Czech, so...

Different configuration examples:






So unsure what leverage folks get to decide their weapon selection...  I do know of some units T&Eing the bren opted to carry a mix of VZ58s, Brens, M4s, etc, rather than just the Bren due to its issues...  The version coming to the US Market is roughly the third generation if I follow the history correctly...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 09:21:23 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2015, 10:06:39 PM »
As far as the mag release goes, I like what a member (can't remember who ) did with his trigger guard.  He trimmed the left front off, making the release easily accessible.  Might just buy a spare and try that mod.

Apex sells the single band version, actually the earliest generation, trigger guards.  These guards connect with two rivets...  If you shoot left handed that might make sense. .. If you're right, just buy an ambi mag release.

Offline CollectorVegas

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2015, 01:27:48 AM »
Sweet Looking rifles!!!
Proud to say that I'm a VZ2008 "FAN BOY"!

Offline IamCaleb

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2015, 09:23:43 AM »
Thanks for that info, I will have to research that option.

I'm right handed but prefer to use my left to do the mag change (I have not tried the ambi releases, tho). On my AR I have a hard time reaching the mag release without changing my grip. At least with the VZ factory release,  my strong hand grip does not change. Hmm, so many options. ...lol.

This thread needs more pics!

As far as the mag release goes, I like what a member (can't remember who ) did with his trigger guard.  He trimmed the left front off, making the release easily accessible.  Might just buy a spare and try that mod.

Apex sells the single band version, actually the earliest generation, trigger guards.  These guards connect with two rivets...  If you shoot left handed that might make sense. .. If you're right, just buy an ambi mag release.

Offline Black Zuma

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2015, 10:10:46 PM »

Offline gwvt

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2015, 08:18:05 PM »
This thread needs photos! I took a couple quick pics to show a friend who just ordered one on my recommendation.
Ronin's grip, NEA handguards, CNC Warrior PFH:



Offline rbgonoles

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2015, 06:30:37 PM »
Very nice!

Offline bigmatt17073

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2015, 08:58:56 PM »


with the bipod:

Offline erad13

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2015, 11:35:45 PM »



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Offline Sheepdog

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2015, 03:21:54 AM »
CSA 58 frolicking (yes I said frolicking  ;D )in the snow.  O0






Offline CitizenPete

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2015, 10:31:10 AM »
 8)

A Samopalcicle.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 03:09:30 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline RSR

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2015, 05:47:26 PM »



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Take that Century slant brake off your rifle, and it'll rotate less in your hands when shooting...

Offline hiluxinvt

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2015, 12:11:20 PM »
Awesome model 58 Greg.
I ordered mine last week supposed to have it this wednesday.
Very Psyched.  O0

This thread needs photos! I took a couple quick pics to show a friend who just ordered one on my recommendation.
Ronin's grip, NEA handguards, CNC Warrior PFH:



Springfield XD45 current side arm
VZ58 owner

Offline gwvt

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Re: VZ2008s pics
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2015, 12:27:47 PM »
Awesome model 58 Greg.
I ordered mine last week supposed to have it this wednesday.
Very Psyched.  O0

Now there's a familiar username. Make sure you post some pics when you're done putting on all the stuff you bought for it, bro! I'm looking forward to doing some shooting with you.

 

anything