Author Topic: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!  (Read 50137 times)

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Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2014, 05:57:11 PM »
I wish I could read Czech... ;)
I will wait to see what one looks like, but it seems that this one, from the few reviews I've read and watched, is well thought out and fully functional. if I am lucky enough to acquire one, we'll see how it like the diet I will feed it.

Offline cntrydawwwg

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2014, 08:36:54 PM »
I've already searched my couch and truck for change. Maybe by the time the second or third wave hits the U.S. I will have enough for one. [emoji2]
If guns are outlawed.........
 Only outlaws will have guns.

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2014, 04:47:59 AM »
"The Scorpion EVO submachine gun will directly challenge the aging Mp-5s, and I think will easily unseat them."

Doubt it.  If you own or have shot subguns like HK MP-5, HK UMP, Sterling, UZI, Swedish K, etc. you quickly realize that each has its very unique personality, pluses and minuses (and easily the worst of them, IMO, is the most "modern" design, HK UMP; it looks and handles like an ungainly and oversized slab of plastic; MP-5 is much more fun to shoot).   Hopefully EVO won't be in that category, but it has to prove itself.   

The HK UMP was intended to be a cheaper alternative to the MP5.  I think some MP5s came in 10mm and .40 S&W, but proved to be unreliable in that weapon system.  Hence, the introduction of the UMP after the larger caliber MP5 versions were withdrawn from the market.

Generally, the consensus on the MP5 is that it's easier to shoot and more accurate than the other sub weapons.  However, it requires more regular cleaning and maintenance to keep it running.  So ideal for law enforcement type roles, but not necessarily for a go to war/zombie apocalypse type weapon.   In that role, the Uzi, Sterling, and Swedish K all are much better options... 

Personally, I see the EVO's primary competition as the other modern polymer pistol carbines -- Keltec Sub2000, Beretta MX4 Storm, Taurus CT9 Carbine, Caracal CC10, various AR 9mms, etc. 
Size and features, the EVO looks to have it's own market niche vs those weapons...  But I look forward to seeing a detailed disassembly video to see the full extent of polymer.  Keltec has several critical metal parts embedded in polymer receiver, Beretta has several critical parts like the hammer made out of polymer, etc. 

Now, in the full auto LE configuration, time will tell, but a reliable, compact, and affordable sub gun could most definitely replace much of their current inventory...

CZ BREN rifles have apparently had some design and performance issues, with complaints from the Czech Army (and Czech taxpayers, since they are far more expensive than VZ-58), so lets hope that CZ has worked out all the bugs out of EVO, and it has no long term issues, like parts breaking.   

To my knowledge the BREN still has issues and they will never fully go away...  The BREN was intended to compete w/ the SCAR, ACR, etc, with multi caliber, quick swap barrels, and all the other military weapon acquisition by committee stuff that leads to utterly boondoggled weapons due to all the competing requirements....  See the F35 Joint Fighter program for a great case in point here. 

There's a thread over on the VZ58 boards about a monolithic rail for the VZ58.  At one time that was proposed as/for modernizing the existing weapon stocks.  But for whatever reason, they rebuilt from scratch and the BREN won over the SCAR as the Czech Military's new weapon, really only due to it being made in the Czech Republic, while the SCAR wasn't... 
But in brief, the Bren controversies are much the same as the M4 issues -- too much emphasis on accuracy/tight tolerances over reliability in the dusty/sandy conditions of Afghanistan that causes them to fail...  The M4 obviously has a bunch of other issues at play too due to the DI gas system under sustained high rates of fire...

Unfortunately, the complaints with the BREN seem to mirror a lot of other CZ-UB declining quality observations by bigger experts than me...  Unsure how much is nostalgia and how much fact but it does seem to be recurring theme...

But pistol carbines due to the relatively low pressures involved are generally very tolerant of abuse even if having some design issues/less than ideal material concessions to reduce cost of manufacture. 

Look forward to folks, and hopefully myself at MSRP or less, getting hands on the EVO giving them a fair shake.  I think they'll impress. 

As a truck gun, I think these will be great.  Wish the barrel was a little longer for home defense use (longer barrel means more blast/flash reduction).  There are other tweaks too and the lack of metal reinforcements on the mags is another major complaint.  And hopefully a pistol grip mod can be made available as well for a more vertical option...

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2014, 04:48:58 AM »
I wish I could read Czech... ;)
I will wait to see what one looks like, but it seems that this one, from the few reviews I've read and watched, is well thought out and fully functional. if I am lucky enough to acquire one, we'll see how it like the diet I will feed it.

Google chrome translates web pages automatically.  And copy and paste into google translate works well too.  Generally the translation is good enough to get a general idea of what's being said.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2014, 01:01:50 PM »
That was a little dig to hint that perhaps translating posted content would be a nice thing, instead of making the reader search for the Translate button. ;) That's all. Also, Chrome translates pages automatically, but not content here - I'm running Chrome. Is all good.

I shot the short lived MP5/10, with two round burst. I always said 10mm was the best subgun round, wring the most out of a very potent cartridge. That was FBI issue, and a lot of fun. I have associates who swear by the MP5 as well, but I know little about them. I can tell you we DID have the semi-auto UMP carbines on the shelf when they came out, and YUCK. Absolutely nobody was impressed with them, in the civilian only model, with the Clintonized neutered magazines and restricted magwells.
I don't know enough about the BREN to really comment, but many times things that work well in the factory come into some unexpected bumps in the real world - remember how the P-07 Duty morphed into the P-07 we know now, with a lot of input from customers over real world issues.
Still really looking forward to seeing how this EVO works out. See, I HAD an UZI Model B back in the day, and the three piece non-NFA bolt made it one of the worst jammamtics I ever owned. That was the last pistol caliber carbine I ever owned...

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2014, 05:33:32 PM »
Cool beans.  Was just trying to be helpful.

Regarding pistol calibers, I think it's largely an argument of diminishing returns.  The only major difference is the amount of drop at range, which higher velocity rounds seem to experience less of, and whether you're looking for suppressed/subsonic capabilities or not.  Subsonic, 45 acp takes the cake IMO vs the 147 gr 9mms... 

Something like this is absolutely awesome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsUALdGog4U

I'm relatively ignorant about 10mm as its overkill and I try to ensure that most firearms I purchase can be used by both me and my wife, but the higher velocity heavier pistol calibers would definitely be easier to shoot in a carbine platform.  But under full auto, I still think they'd be too much without a substantial muzzle brake.  The 10lb tommy gun for instance in 45 acp, still needs a very strong anti-muzzle rise biased muzzle brake to stay on target... Single shots/semi auto, the heavier pistol calibers make more sense IMO, especially with modern sub guns that weigh ~1/2 of what their predecessors did...

And let's not forget all the reasons why the FBI is switching to 9mm -- in brief, due to advancements in modern defensive ammunition, all common pistol calibers can meet and exceed FBI ballistics criteria, so recognizing -- accuracy and ability to get multiple shots on target quickly are what put down bad guys.
http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 05:41:34 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2014, 05:59:29 PM »
I don't know enough about the BREN to really comment, but many times things that work well in the factory come into some unexpected bumps in the real world - remember how the P-07 Duty morphed into the P-07 we know now, with a lot of input from customers over real world issues.

The pistol from the former Czechslovakia I'm most interested in is out of Slovakia -- the Grand Power K100:

A pretty ingenious pistol design in my opinion -- and just released on US Markets by Century (Slovakian built, Century imported) in ~September of this year. 

Personally, I'm much more interested in this K100 than Arsenal's Strike One: http://www.arsenalfirearms.com/products/strike-pistol-system

K100 -- http://www.practicalhandgun.com/the-slovakian-grand-power-k100-9mm-service-pistol.html
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The slide is manufactured from chrome-nickel molybdenum steel by Belgian supplier Fabrique Nationale Herstal. The 108mm long barrel is made of 51CrV4 steel manufactured by CZ-UB according to Grand Power?s requirements. The magazines are made inItalyby Mec-Gar, who now manufactures magazines for various firearm companies? pistols.
And there are supposed to be decocker kits coming to the US soon too -- currently, just has a safety (guessing a safety and decocker combo)...

Good review of K100: http://tacticalgunreview.com/staff-review-grand-power-duo-the-k100-mk7-and-the-p1-mk7/

http://www.classicfirearms.com/hgnp1mk7-1 (can find these around $400, just linking here for the torture test description)
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Used by the Slovakia military = where there is no shortage of quality locally made sidearms from the former Czechoslovakia - Grand Power pistols were put through, and passed with flying colors, incredible torture tests that other internationally famous brands failed miserably. Such as 100,000 rounds without any changes in critical dimensions. 20,000 consecutive rounds without any feeding failures. And a silicone dust, wind chamber test (think desert sandstorm) that ground the competition to a halt - literally. Attractive, tough, comfortable to use and light weight to carry, Grand Power makes a pistol that you will be proud to own for years to come. Whether it's the full size K100 Mk7, or the compact P1 MK7,Grand Power makes a pistol that's just right for you!

http://youtu.be/ApXyvCNyw4g

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2014, 10:03:37 PM »
It looks nice, but this discussion of the grand Power would far better fit in the General Discussion or Clone Club section. I wish I could understand the language - love the sound of laungaues from Russia and other Slovak countries.

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2014, 06:12:43 AM »
To my knowledge the BREN still has issues and they will never fully go away...  The BREN was intended to compete w/ the SCAR, ACR, etc, with multi caliber, quick swap barrels, and all the other military weapon acquisition by committee stuff that leads to utterly boondoggled weapons due to all the competing requirements....  See the F35 Joint Fighter program for a great case in point here. 

FWIW, I hadn't seen this when making the F35 comment... Modern military decision making continues to blow my mind!

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The F-35 can only fly on jet fuel under a certain temperature due to a range of heating issues attributed to the F-35B variant?s short takeoff and vertical landing engine. According to the USAF, the dark-green trucks that carry that fuel absorb too much heat from the sun to keep the planes in the sky.

That presents a serious logistical problem for an advanced multi-role fleet expected to maintain U.S. air superiority in areas of potential conflict such as the Middle East and South Pacific ? areas with no shortage of sunlight.

For the time being the Air Force is addressing the issue by painting the tanker trailers of the trucks a bright reflective white to repel sunlight absorption. That presents a whole new problem for the safety of the trucks, which will be necessary to support the Joint Strike Fighter on forward deployments where large white tankers full of highly flammable fuel could make easy targets.
http://news.yahoo.com/usaf-paint-trucks-because-f-35-t-fly-033918678.html

Offline RSR

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2014, 05:32:45 PM »

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2014, 11:44:10 AM »
You certainly have all the news and info on the BREN and the EVO! 8)

Offline mikec

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #71 on: December 14, 2014, 04:07:23 AM »
Now all we need to know is when CZ-USA starts shipping them to the distributors.  Obviously they are not HERE yet.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #72 on: December 14, 2014, 12:24:43 PM »
Word is soon, very soon, as in 4 weeks or so.

Offline 350zrb

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #73 on: December 14, 2014, 01:49:57 PM »
I know that I am late in this game.
I called J&G Sales. They sold all 5 of their pre-order.
But the guy put my name on the waiting list just in case they have more later.
Fingers cross.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Skorpion EVO pistol is HERE!
« Reply #74 on: December 14, 2014, 03:51:57 PM »
You never know, you never know. ;)