Why I chose the Vz. 58 over an AKM (Video)

[RSR]

Lookign for the duckbill video, this popped up, and covers some of the same ground:

http://youtu.be/6mXXvrHgRZs

Costa has a good one too that this reminded me of too -- think it was this video or perhaps dynamic shotgun where he does a good discussion on why the shotgun is the hardest platform to master and most difficult platform to operate under stress, in a tactical situation you'll always be either shooting or reloading w/ a shotgun...:

http://youtu.be/HmXK0QFp8SY

Here's the Gator video (again, see a tactical use for shotguns for this and as an entry tool pretty much exclusively unless the shotgun is used as a weapon within a platoon or similar sized unit...):

http://youtu.be/-hOa24Sob8w

[RSR]

Came across really cool and informative pics here of a FLIR w/ temps differences between a DI AR, a short stroke SCAR (roughly speaking, the SCAR action is comparable to the VZ58), and an AK: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?62889-SCAR-vs-AR-A-detailed-look&p=763227#post763227

EDIT: I would think by nature/function of ammo, 5.56 will lead to hotter chamber temps than 7.62x39 since usually more powder (25-28 grains of powder for 5.56 reloads and 24-26 gr of powder for 7.62x39), greater 5.56 chamber pressures (more metal to metal contact before extraction for faster heat transfer), more powder is burned just beyond the chamber w/o the case helping to insulate and carry away much of the powder heat like 7.62x39, and finally the greater surface area and ability to transfer heat away internally as well as larger barrel air pocket for 7.62x39...

24-28

SCAR:
Bolt face


Not sure what this is


Gas block


Bolt carrier


Chamber


Handguard:


Bolt lug:


Barrel at gas block:


AR15 (Colt 6933):
Firing pin:


Cam pin:


Bolt:


Gas key:


Bolt again:


Bolt face:


Gas block:


Bolt carrier:


Bolt lug:


Chamber:


Bolt carrier again:



AK
Gas block equivalent, gas piston face


Bolt carrier:


Gas block:


Chamber:

[CitizenPete]

I really think there should be a thread about front end heat issues, esp. since this is all really great information, discussion, and data. This is supposed to be AKM vs. VZ58 thread.

For future reference and searches, it would be really nice if we could all try (speaking to myself here) to avoid inadvertently highjacking threads (guilty here) buy just starting a new thread with any major topic -- however related to the original thread -- and just link to that thread.

This heat issue discussion is great but it may be in the wrong place?

[RSR]

While this thread is titled AK vs VZ58, the 2nd video/post by OP is why not an AR instead of the VZ either...

Based on those prompts, this evolved into a platform comparison thread and once the heat data was posted I didn't see the likelihood of much discussion beyond "it is what it is" and "heat stresses metal" and "heat evaporates lube and/or more quickly degrades it lubricity capability, depending on lube type," so I didn't think it merited standalone... And of recent threads, thought that this was the most appropriate recent discussion to add these data points to.

[TJNewton]

While this thread is titled AK vs VZ58, the 2nd video/post by OP is why not an AR instead of the VZ either...

Based on those prompts, this evolved into a platform comparison thread and once the heat data was posted I didn't see the likelihood of much discussion beyond "it is what it is" and "heat stresses metal" and "heat evaporates lube and/or more quickly degrades it lubricity capability, depending on lube type," so I didn't think it merited standalone... And of recent threads, thought that this was the most appropriate recent discussion to add these data points to.

Interesting info.  The next time I take out my VZ 2008, I'll measure the different parts after shooting with my IR gun and start a thread with the results.  Presently, I don't have access to an AK for comparison.

[RSR]

Continuing on the earlier shotgun vs pistol vs rifle vs whatever home defense discussion.  Found this great video illustrating length:

http://youtu.be/_APnhoIYeD0

*Pistol rifle carbines come in even shorter than the shotgun...  And seeing as how you can fire a pistol carbine faster than a shotgun (as well as it weighing less, allowing for much more efficient one hand plus shoulder manipulation), your firepower is roughly equivalent between a shotgun and carbine in a given timeframe.  With one trigger pull, no -- but IMO that's a false measure.

And remember w/ home defense you should be barricaded with your family secure, not trying to clear rooms... For that you call the cops.

[CitizenPete]

So thats why you would choose a VZ.58 over an AK?  I'm lost.

AKM vs VZ design:  http://www.cncwarrior.com/VZ-58-14-x-1-RH-Barrel-Extension-p/25797.htm

[RSR]

Came across a cool vid, and this thread was the most recent  relevant discussion (starting 5 or so posts back) here I could think to put it... I'll add it to the 9mm VZ58 thread now that I'm thinking more about it (though I doubt that weapon/conversion will ever come to the US market).

Compactness matters in home defense.  When considering muzzle blast and flash and intended barrel length of 20" for max velocity, 5.56 has significant drawbacks in short barrels...  7.62x39 was designed around 16" barrels.  9mm was designed around ~5" barrels.  Shotguns vary, but gain velocity w/ longer barrels...  Would like to see a cut down shotgun barrel velocity chart, as well as relevant blast and flash (would think similar to 5.56). 

Folks talk about pistols as being their go to, whereas I think a pistol is something you should always have on you/immediate hand, but if you hear a bump in the night and grab something -- I think anyone would be better served w/ something with a stock