P09 ISSUE

[Joe L]

Joe L just checked, barrel and slide look parallel  with the slightest  side to side movement at the breach.
Looks like CZ USA will have to let me know what is the issue.
That is the only issue making me unhappy with the p09

OK, well I had to ask.  If the barrel is parallel with the slide and the sights aren't, either the barrel is bent or the shooter is moving the gun.  My bet is that the barrel isn't bent. 

Before you get ticked off again about someone suggesting that the gun is moving as the trigger is pulled, let me give you a little history.  I did that when I first got my P-09.  I had to add grip tape, then JB-Weld to the frame and trigger to increase the trigger reach enough so that I could shoot the gun well, as in not pushing the gun low left.  Yep, I did.  I have long fingers and like long reach guns.  The P-09 is a short reach gun as it comes from the factory. 

Try this.  Put on some thick gloves and shoot the gun again.  If you have to move the sight left and things start centering up, maybe there is something here to study further.  If nothing changes, than you have to find a mechanical reason for the sight position. 

Believe me, we are all trying to be helpful here.  I have about 9000 rounds experience with a P-09, including one season shooting bullseye matches and several good range sessions at 100 and 200 yards.  The trigger reach is the only thing significantly different about the gun from most, and this sometimes causes issues. 

Joe

[357MAGNOLE]

Joe L just checked, barrel and slide look parallel  with the slightest  side to side movement at the breach.
Looks like CZ USA will have to let me know what is the issue.
That is the only issue making me unhappy with the p09

OK, well I had to ask.  If the barrel is parallel with the slide and the sights aren't, either the barrel is bent or the shooter is moving the gun.  My bet is that the barrel isn't bent. 

Before you get ticked off again about someone suggesting that the gun is moving as the trigger is pulled, let me give you a little history.  I did that when I first got my P-09.  I had to add grip tape, then JB-Weld to the frame and trigger to increase the trigger reach enough so that I could shoot the gun well, as in not pushing the gun low left.  Yep, I did.  I have long fingers and like long reach guns.  The P-09 is a short reach gun as it comes from the factory. 

Try this.  Put on some thick gloves and shoot the gun again.  If you have to move the sight left and things start centering up, maybe there is something here to study further.  If nothing changes, than you have to find a mechanical reason for the sight position. 

Believe me, we are all trying to be helpful here.  I have about 9000 rounds experience with a P-09, including one season shooting bullseye matches and several good range sessions at 100 and 200 yards.  The trigger reach is the only thing significantly different about the gun from most, and this sometimes causes issues. 

Joe

Old Rocket,

Buddy I would agree with what Joe is saying.  Could have to do with the trigger reach.  When I first got my P938 I pulled shots pretty bad and could not get the hang of it so I sold it.  Some guns just aren't made for an individual just like some are such a good fit it feels like family.

[Old Rocket]

 I understand about grip and trigger, on the p09 I have to use the large back strap with a patch Mar Rubber over. On my sp01 I have to use the factory rubber I can't use thin grips.
 I started with a 75b years ago sending hammer and sear to David so he could cut them. Every one of my CZS is tuned with David's best parts now and love a good trigger.
 I have shot a good amount of bullseye center and rim with the boys and that range is 4 min from my house of 22yrs and I travel 40 min  for USPSA.
 I have a 13 lb hammer spring with CGW parts for the p09 and only run fed primers.
 This is at 10yrds benched freehand with myself and another shooter. I should try week hand then I should have to move the sights the other way. I only know of 1 guy who has a ransom rest but haven't seen him in a while.
Just wanting to get it figured out.

[gdawgs56]

I'm gonna say shooter error on this one, pulling the shots to one side.  Then compensating by adjusting the sights rather than ones technique.

I wish it was the shooter it would be an easy fix but then my STI 45, sp01s, 75b, HighPower, c-100 and S&W 22A would require their sights to be adjusted. I put 3,000 rounds a month through the STI and CZs alone MAMAs BOY against league/competiton shooters 2x/week.
[/quote]

I don't know if you were agitated or not, but it sounded like it. Grandmas_Boy was just giving his opinion and thoughts. No need to take offense.

EDIT: I don't know what happened with that quote.

[Joe L]

Good idea to try weak hand.  Also try consciously using less and more trigger finger insertion.  Also see if there is any difference single action versus double action.   

Here is a photo showing what mine looks like after I got enough thickness on the sides and buildup on the trigger to get the reach right for me. 



Also a video demonstrating how different the P-09 is compared to the 75, both in single action mode.

http://youtu.be/gByPKEX4z4E

Hope this helps.

Joe

[rhart]

I had a similar issue with my new P-07 and I had to adjust the rear way to the right (but not quite as far as in the picture). I noticed during dry firing that the muzzle wanted to shift suddenly to the left when the trigger broke especially when one-handed firing. I tried shooting from a bench rest and being very conscious of trigger pull and to make a long story short - the sights are adjusted back almost to where they started. Target from CZ that came with the gun showed the weapon shooting to the left with a center POA and this complicated the issue for me as I was sure it was the gun.

[rhart]

I just thought of something while looking at another thread. I noticed that the ejector had some pretty severe wear marks and I sanded the area on the ejector until not even the slightest trace of rubbing was evident just before I fired it using a bench rest. I wonder if this may have had something to do with the gun shooting left for me... it would have been pushing the rear of the slide to the right which would possibly torque the barrel slightly left? Or am I way off here?

EDIT - The ejector is on the left side (looking down the sights so the place it was wearing would have pushed the rear to the left and the front toward the right - I think...

[Winkel]

I have nothing to offer other than that would bug the crap out of me as well. 

Please let us know what you find out!

[rhart]

Yeah, it was bugging me just being slightly off center. I would be absolutely sick if they were off as bad as what the picture showed.

[Joe L]

Old Rocket--any progress on your original issue? 

Joe

[Blue9]

Also interested in an update..very odd issue considering the shooter's experience level.

[Old Rocket]

Just notified today that CZ USA is replacing the p09. No explanation  just needed to be warranty replaced shipped today and here Monday.
Had to send it in twice, the first time the gun smith shot it and the sights were the same as in the pictures with the target 3/4" to the right at 30ft. They said move it to the center and it will be fine. I said that at 30ft l would only need to move it very little compared to how far center was. I measured and found the front sight was milled 3 hundreds of an inch to the right. So I sent it back saying they should look into this further and they agreed.
On month later I get a call again from the gun smith telling me just to move the sight to center and had to explanation everything again. Then this notification came today.
 I am happy because this is resolved with some effort on my part.

[nicky]

     I'm glad that your persistence worked out for you. I read what you found about the front sight being off but would have been interested in what the CZ smith thought. Or did he agree with you?

[Old Rocket]

     I'm glad that your persistence worked out for you. I read what you found about the front sight being off but would have been interested in what the CZ smith thought. Or did he agree with you?

As soon as I got the email I called asking what they found and the response was that it warranted a replacement with no further explanation.
CZ USA only bench rest the guns no ransom or anything similar and they are reluctant to move sights at least with my gun. Wasn't until I said to check the centering of the front sight that ended the issue.

[oldtimer48]

old rocket I am not trying to be wise guy here, I realize you stated that all was fine with the other hand guns. I have found for me personally I am right handed right eye dominate and if I grip to tight with my strong hand (right) that I will tend to shoot left. I pretty much force myself to stay aware of this and force myself to grip tighter with my off hand left. I also found a article explaining this on the web by haley strategic and printed out some of there targets with a vertical line on it trying to improve my shooting technique. I have found that it is even more evident when I am shooting a Glock with a 5.5 lb. trigger, I just have a hard time with it. I also work on sight  alignment all the way through the trigger pull especially towards and at the end where it breaks. Anyhow I just did not want to sit on the sidelines read the post and not offer some input.