Muzzle Brake vs Flash Hider?

[Cheapo]

So after doing some research between the two listed above, I was wondering how much louder is the report on a VZ with a muzzle brake? It seems people online say it increases it quite a bit, and I've only found one post on here where someone said it increases it but its not unbearable. Is it worth increasing the report to reduce recoil or should I rock a flash hider if I'm worried about increasing the report too much? Regardless, I'm just trying to replace that crap CIA threw on the VZ2008 when they shipped. Thanks.

[Howlin Mad]

Contrary to popular belief, muzzle brakes do not increase the level of sound coming from a barrel one decibel (or bit).  What some brakes do is redirect some of the sound upwards or to the side instead of primarily forward.  That increases the apparent sound level to the shooter somewhat, and to the bystanders quite a bit.

There are brakes that are brutally unpleasant to be beside someone shooting, but I've never had a brake that made a gun unpleasant to shoot, and that includes competition guns and SBR's.

Shooting a rifle indoors with a brake is a different story, all my shooting is outdoors.

[larryflew]

What Howlin said.....Have brakes on 3 rifles. Only one is louder for the shooter than it was B4 but all are MUCH louder along side the shooter.

[TJNewton]

Also agree with Howlin Mad.  I didn't notice much of a difference, but bystanders were cupping their ears. 

I tried the Slovak brake and the Phantom and PKM short flash hiders.  The brake reduces rise and recoil, but not much more than the two flash hiders.  It may be because the rise and recoil on this rifle isn't that much to begin with.  The brake not only increases sound in certain directions, but it also makes a huge daytime fireball.  At night it must be blinding.  I'd rather have the flash suppression to prevent temporary blindness at the cost of just a little more kick and flip.

[Cheapo]

Yea I guess I dont really care about the recoil reduction and I dont like the idea of the annoying volume to people next to me and the fireball. Guess I'll go the flash suppression route! Thanks guys

[RSR]

What happens when you fire a bullet?  You're converting the energy stored in gunpowder into gases that accelerate the bullet down the barrel...  But that conversion of energy states also produces noise and light in addition to propellant gases...

Take these two tanks/artillery guns.

This is essentially the same distribution of muzzle gases as a bare barrel:




And this is basic brake distribution:





Basically, w/o a brake, you're sending gases, noise, and flash all downrange.  With a brake, you're compressing and redirecting those same gases and sending them in a direction that's closer to you... 

Hence, why some of CQB operator types still run brakes, but run linear brakes...  Allen Gun Works sells a linear brake out of Canada for the VZ58: http://www.allengunworks.com/products.html

The special forces brake and Zendl brakes both have braking and flash reduction capabilities and both have been approved for Czech military use. 

In a gun fight the speed and accuracy of rounds down range matter, and brakes excel in this respect.

And flash hiders only work for the visible light spectrum...  In night vision, even with a flash hider your flash will be visible.  And even w/ suppressors, your first shot is more visible and noisy as the propellant gases burn off the oxygen in the can...  Followup shots have less flash and noise...  (Point being, for night ops, you really need a suppressor not a flash hider on the modern battlefield, but even that has its limitations.)

There are a lot of good youtube videos showing above, and I posted some less than a month ago to a similar thread here if you care to search.

[TJNewton]

And flash hiders only work for the visible light spectrum...  In night vision, even with a flash hider your flash will be visible.  And even w/ suppressors, your first shot is more visible and noisy as the propellant gases burn off the oxygen in the can...  Followup shots have less flash and noise...  (Point being, for night ops, you really need a suppressor not a flash hider on the modern battlefield, but even that has its limitations.)

I chose a flash hider over a brake in the dark not so much to hide position, but more so to prevent shooter blinding.  Both the Phantom and PKM short reduce the flash to that of a lighter being flicked in the dark -- as opposed to an exploding firecracker.  The Phantom is almost indistinguishable, more like a lighter that's out of juice.  As for braking, when comparing the flash hiders with the brake, the recoil was so minimal with all of them that I had to really ponder on which had the most, then shoot again, then ponder again.  Not much difference.  Even the barrel nut wasn't bad.  The slant brake was the worst as it's not the right design, but even that wasn't terrible.  I shot with nothing but the slant brake for the first 1,000 honeymoon rounds and remained enamored with the rifle.

[Airacuda]

I'm with you TJ. I have the Phantom and type 84 from CNC Warrior which both work well. In the winter it gets dark early and I shoot in the evening which as you said will blind you on the 1st shot without a hider.