Author Topic: Trigger Upgrade - for Czech Small Arms Sa Vz.58 owners - Anyone try this yet?  (Read 12334 times)

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Offline CitizenPete

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For CSA SA Vz.58 owners:

Antoni Zendl Puskar is offering an upgraded dis-connector that they told me should install without modification. The link was posted in the Vz.58 parts sticky about a week ago.   Please post results or PM me if you have installed this part. Thank you.

The disconnector may install on other Vz.58 variants with modifications - see "translated" PDF instructions below.

While the main purpose of this design was for gremlin/hermex they advertise it as also improving overall FCG and trigger function, reducing take up, pull and reset.  IMO the VZ58 trigger is a major flaw with the rifle.  Personally I have always hated the standard surplus VZ.58 FCG trigger function (the take-up, the long release)  and always hoped somebody would design something that would at least compare with an upgraded AKM trigger (Tapco G2, Dinzag Arms, etc.), so I have high hopes for this design. Zendl makes high quality parts.

I am in the process of ordering a Zendl disconnector (ZD) for trial within some of the following SA Vz.58 FCG combinations, to see what can be achieved.

The Bonesteel Arms FCG (already in my stock) is also on the list to be tested to compare and perhaps combine with the ZD.  I have read some good things about the BS Arms FCG, and on initial inspection the sear is definitely "different" from the original.

If the ZD greatly improves the FCG function then I would probably buy more for other variants, however that reportedly requires modification (filing, cutting).  See install instructions below.

Combinations to test:
ZD with original CSA FCG
ZD with Checkpoint USA FCG
ZD with Bonesteel FCG (Modified BStl Sear and trigger)
ZD with CP USA sear and Bonesteel trigger (if that's possible)

The cost of the dis-connector is about $100 with shipping and includes a 2-Year warranty.  I would gladly pay double that if it "fixes" the FCG and trigger.   

Was kinda hoping someone else has (or will) install it as-well so we could compare notes.

I also including some more Zendl TBRs on the order because I still had more Zendl TMRs in stock, and the shipping is high irregardless of the number of parts, so might as well add a few more to soak up the shipping cost.  There might be an extra set (TBR/TMR) available and if anyone is interested let me know by PM and we can discuss price.   

Note regarding FX exchange. (Now might be a good time to by parts from eu)
So, if anyone has been watching the FX markets lately you already know that the USD has been on a tear.  Yesterday after the FED spoke the USD dropped like a rock but already rebounded by this morning.  This is a good this if you want to acquire some accessories and parts (such as this disconnector) from the EU.  Your dollar buys more right now, so if your considering parts from Czech companies selling in CZK  (Zendl, King, etc...) you might consider the positive exchange rate.  VZrifle.com sells in Euros.  EUR/USD was 1.06 and you could buy 26 CZK for 1USD at the time of this post.



Quote
http://www.zendl.cz/index.php/produscts/doplnkysa58/112-modifikovane-tahlo-s-prerusovacem

Modified shutter rod with a circuit for CZ 858 Tactical CZH 2003 Hermex, FSN 01
 
Modified shutter rod with a circuit designed to help reduce firearm malfunction "Padania dern?ku" (ie. Hermex effect). Defect manifests that after the shot is a new cartridge in the chamber, but the firing mechanism is not tight and not so possible to shoot. On z?palce charge is faintly firing pin. Adherence to this defect have basically all original automatic weapons Sa vz 58 converted to semi-automatic weapons CZ 858 Tactical, CZH Hermex 2003, the 1st FSN It is due to the mechanisms of self-loading, removing components providing a self-shooting mode, thus changing the function of this mechanism. Using a modified shutter rod interrupter is also possible to achieve lower-trigger using the trigger with adjustable trigger overtravel also shorter trigger travel. Before installation, carefully read the installation instructions.
 
Availability - In Stock
Only malobchodn? sale
 
2-year warranty from the date of sale
 
Price without VAT - 1325 - CZK
 
Price with VAT 21% - 1603, - CZK





Installation instructions below - poor Google translation (sorry) and Does not include diagrams. Original PDF with modification diagram online here: http://www.zendl.cz/images/stories/Obrazky/Modifikovane_tahlo_spouste_s_prerusovacem_CZ858Tactical.pdf

Quote
Modified shutter rod with a circuit for CZ 858 Tactical, CZH 2003 Hermex,
FSN 01
 Dear Customer, Thank you for buying our product. After unpacking his book
check the completeness of the box as listed below: Rod shutter interrupter 1pc
 Spring shutter 1 pc
 Modified pull the switch trigger to eliminate defects in arms "crashing striker" (ie.
Hermex effect). Failure is manifested in that, after firing is a new cartridge in the chamber, but
the firing mechanism is not tight and not so possible to shoot. On z?palce charge is faintly
Firing. Adherence to this defect have basically all original automatic weapons Sa vz
58 converted to semi-automatic weapons CZ 858 Tactical, CZH Hermex 2003, the 1st FSN It
due to the mechanisms of self-loading, removing components to ensure the self
shooting mode and thus changing the function of this mechanism. Using a modified rod
Shutter interrupter is also possible to achieve lower-trigger when using tongue
shutter with adjustable shutter slump also shorter trigger travel. If you are not sure
replacement of the component can handle, entrust this work rather experienced person with appropriate
equipment.
 Installation: First, check whether the gun discharged. Then remove the cover from the gun
return springs and the very end. Inside the body of the weapon on the right side in the shooting direction is metal
fuse pins in the shape of T. Push (double-click) on the front of the shoulder with a screwdriver
or a rod to fuse slightly tilted downwards. This is triggered by the capture of striker pins and
shutter which can now be removed from the gun with these components. (U CZ 858 Tactical is
right groove in the trigger-arm spring wire. This spring in use
modified linkage shutter interrupter no longer need to give back to the weapon).
Clamp the trigger for the side surfaces of the trigger in quality with smooth or vice
at least soft (tin) jaws, to avoid damage to the shutter. Do NOT her
enlarged upper portion shutter at the point where it passes through the spindle. Doing so could cause it to deformation and subsequent problems with the function of the trigger mechanism.
Punch out the pin that holds the original rod shutter is triggered. After punching pin
Remove the old rod with its shutter spring. Do shutter insert a new weaker spring which
is supplied with a modified stem shutter interrupter. (This is not necessary.
You can also use the original spring). Into the groove in the trigger insert modified rod shutter
interrupter and carefully center punch, tap the pin back. Carefully make sure that the hole in the rod well centered on the pin. After inclusion pin check whether the modified shutter rod
interrupter may freely without rubbing around the pin shutter throughout his
range. If this is correct then we can insert this assembly back into the gun and tuck into
Body construction pin trigger. The same thing we do well to capture striker. After inserting two pins
return the lock to its original position by pushing on the rear arm such that its upper
surface parallel to the upper side body arms.

Now you need to check the proper operation:
  1) Press the trigger to determine whether the trigger return spring shutter all the way to its
range. If you happen to have a lot of first running unopposed in the spring trigger (when
tilt weapons uppermost tab shutter spontaneously moves down and tilted
Zbani upside down vice versa), it is necessary to pin a file to reduce surface (edge) in accordance with the trigger
Figure 1. Simply subtract 0.1 - 0.2 mm.


FIGURE NOT INCLUDED see http://www.zendl.cz/images/stories/Obrazky/Modifikovane_tahlo_spouste_s_prerusovacem_CZ858Tactical.pdf


2) Press the shutter button, hold it and push the tab breaker. Should be reduced and slippage
of the frame behind the capture of striker. Must may click and capture of striker must return to
original top position as when the trigger is pressed. Now again press the shutter button and capture
?dern?ku should again be reduced. If this does not catch a rod for capture
pin, it is necessary to remove material from the pad to the capture of striker according to Figure 2. Subscribe
very carefully for up to 0.1 mm. Always assemble a weapon as described above to determine
whether a weapon has been functioning properly. Carefully make sure that the pad has always been straight with sharp
edge and smooth.
Attention !!! This point pay great attention. If it happened, it does not capture rod
for the capture of striker and you should've assembled the gun and pulled, it would tighten the drums
mechanism, but he would not be run striker. The weapon would thus not go to disassemble. If this
it turns out, it is necessary to deal with removing the butt or grips to allow over
uncovered hole in the body of an arms push rod to catch the firing pin and firing pin so
run.

FIGURE NOT INCLUDED see http://www.zendl.cz/images/stories/Obrazky/Modifikovane_tahlo_spouste_s_prerusovacem_CZ858Tactical.pdf

3) If you purchased a modified rod shutter interrupter and runs in which
screw drop the trigger, you must set it. Load the gun very end and put it into
front position. Push your finger on the striker who is captured for capture of striker direction
forward while pressing the shutter button. It must be free to move forward. Now take
1.5 mm Allen wrench and tighten the screw so that when you press the shutter button will not push
striker in the forward position. This means that the firing mechanism will not start. Now gradually
loosen the screw by counterclockwise for approximately 0.25 revolutions until at will
Press the trigger hammer to push into the front position. After one rotation of the screw always
Repeat the above procedure. The moment will already firing pin to retract into the front position,
so one last slightly loosen the screw speed of 0.25 to insure proper function
mechanism.
 4) Assemble all the weapon and the conclusion and cover return springs. Now check whether the shutter rod
off reliably capture of engagement with the firing pin. Nat?hnut?m end to the rear position
Cock the firing mechanism. Press the shutter button (start the firing mechanism) and still hold it. Now
again draw a conclusion and return to the front position. Loosen the latch trigger. You should hear
click again and press the shutter cocking mechanism must go run. This procedure
Repeat at least 10 times and try more positions pulling the trigger (trigger offset only
a quarter of its running path, half etc.). If it happens that the firing mechanism is slack
and thus can not press the shutter button to start, it is necessary to reduce a spot on the capture of striker according to
Figure 3. Again, a maximum of 0.1 mm, and each test procedure described above, whether already
mechanism works properly. Carefully make sure that the pad has always been straight with sharp
edge and smooth.

5) If the shutter is modified rod with intermittent fault persists crash
?dern?ku in the shooting and all the above points are in order, it is necessary to slightly napru?it
(swig up by 1 - 2 mm) leaf spring which lifts the capture of striker. This adjustment is
but manifested as an increase trigger pull.
  The manufacturer is not liable for damage to the gun and the product or faulty installation or failure to
instructions in this manual.
  Warranty is 24 months from the date of purchase.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline MeatAxe

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Interesting...

How do you like your Bonesteel FCG?

Do you know if the Bonesteel FCG is the same one manufactured by CNC Warrior or not?

http://www.cncwarrior.com/Trigger-Parts-s/1823.htm

Trigger improvement is always improvement, especially if the parts are 922r compliant.

Offline CitizenPete

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Interesting...

How do you like your Bonesteel FCG?

Do you know if the Bonesteel FCG is the same one manufactured by CNC Warrior or not?

http://www.cncwarrior.com/Trigger-Parts-s/1823.htm

Trigger improvement is always improvement, especially if the parts are 922r compliant.

I guess the FCG I received from Bonesteel is a CNC Warrior manufactured FCG - Part number is "CNC-VZ58FCG" and it's the one pice sear.  Ordering the complete 3 piece FCG from Bonesteel saves you like $9 I guess.   It's sitting in a bin patiently waiting to be installed and tried along with the Czechpoint US FCG.  Too many projects going on right now, but they have a few good customer reviews about it on their product page.



Regarding 922R, obviously the Zendl disconnector is one foreign part, but the two piece with spring design really is unique and I have high hopes for improving the trigger overall.  In my dreams it works flawlessly in concert with the CNC one piece sear.  All my carriers are tabbed, but I think this might have been designed to solve the gremlin without the tab?.

If my local D@#& range ever re-opens. Now that the snow is melting the manager told me its flooded and the LEOs who train there got a vehicle stuck.  (April target for reopen now)  NE Ohio in the snow belt.   ::) One of my shooting buddies wants me to join a 600 yard range about 1.5 hours south of here and I am considering it.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline JohnEd

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CP,

Have you found any trigger mods that are worth the improvement?

John

Offline CitizenPete

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CP,

Have you found any trigger mods that are worth the improvement?

John

Having issues with my package ordered from Zendl which included a spring loaded disconnector to test.  Package arrived in PA two weeks ago and now appears to be lost by the USPS. (sigh)  USPS told me to fill out an insurance claim.  Its probably caught in some crack at the Cleveland USPS hub.

Testing the BonesteelCNC Warrior FCG (US made) in my SA VZ.58 SBR right now and it is feels good, but still has the long take up.  I have the Czechpoint FCG (US made with the poly trigger) to test as well, however I was told it is exactly the same as the stock Czechpoint Czech made FCG in design. Haven't tried it yet, but if its the same as the stock trigger ...

The OOW VZ2000 has a FCG somewhat similar FCG to the VZ2008 (or visa versa as the case may be) it's not horrible, but close to horrible. 

I will test the Zendl disconnector in the SA Vz.58, VZ2000, and VZ2008 if I can ever get it in my hands. And if I can ever find a punch to remove the locking roll pin on the trigger/disconnector cross pin in the VZ2000, which is smaller than the VZ2008 if you can imagine that.

Forum user Forced March claims he has a workable trigger modification that improves take up and break/reset on SA VZ.58 (if I remember correctly), but he never explained its function, or how it works, or what he is doing.  see his post) He said he would contact me but never did.  FM said he is "tooling up" to mod VZ2008 rifles as well.  Not eager to be an early adopter of a modified FCG without knowing what is being done first, or that its a proven safe mod, and doesn't reduce the life of the parts, etc.  I'll wait for the reviews to come in.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 11:17:49 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline CitizenPete

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Help... ideas?
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 01:33:20 PM »
Hoorah! My Zendl package finally arrived after OVER ONE MONTH!  It was in the US lost for almost 2 weeks between PA and the USPS Ohio sort facility. Even my mail carrier and the post office was happy for me. Next time I will pay for EMS Express shipment.

Anyhow...

I have no problem installing the disconnector, I know where and how it goes in.  But low and behold it came with a solid stainless pin and an additional spring -- these were not covered/shown in the product listing or instructions.

It is not a replacement for the roll pin in the hindged disconnector -- too long.  and the spring does not fit over the pin. Neither of them attach to the disconnector in anyway I can see.  My guess it has something to do with the cross pin holding the trigger and disconnector in place?  Ideas?

I sent an email to Zendl but the translation might be a problem.

Guesses from anyone familiar with the various variant FCGs as to what these are for? 


« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 01:37:03 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline RSR

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Re: Help... ideas?
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2015, 04:48:55 PM »
My guess it has something to do with the cross pin holding the trigger and disconnector in place?

This.

Offline Forced March

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I've uploaded my newest trigger mod, it's now for sale but only to specific receiver owners.  Check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE5cxNuq_XE

Not trying to steal this thread.  I am very interested in what CP finds out about his new disconnector.

Offline CitizenPete

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ZENDL Spring Loaded Disconnector

The extra SS pin they sent is a replacement for the trigger/disconnector retaining pin (not the receiver cross pin) to be used to replace the original if you destroy the old one driving it out. However it is longer. (?)

The spring is a replacement for the stock trigger spring and Zendl says that it is lighter,  designed to reduce the trigger pull.

Today I installed it with a Bonesteel/CNC Warrior  FCG in an Sa vz.58.  Installation was not an issue -- just the normal BS with e-clips etc.  The extra pin and spring do not apply to the BS/CNC trigger assembly as the design is different from the sa. version.

The function of the Zendl DC (DisConnector) is interesting.  Since the "tab" that sticks up out of the top of the DC is normally fixed, the DC is not only forced down when the carrier travels over it, it also rides front to back.  With the Zendl DC having a hinged spring loaded tab on the the top the DC is pushed straight down as the tab folds forward on top of the DC. 

I think this is to address the timing issue with the carrier travel over the DC.  Since the top tab folds over the DC and in effect rides along with the carrier as it travels forward over it.  This increases the "residence time" of  the carrier movement pressing down on the disconnector eliminating the Gremlin or HERMEX. (with or without the carrier being tabbed).

As for the function of the trigger,. I don't see a big difference in performance, take up, reset, etc.  If anything the pull is harder without the Zendl replacement spring.  The BS/CNC trigger is a bit of improvement over the stock trigger already and the Zendl DC doesn't noticeably change it much.

Next test will be with the CSA trigger group which is the stock design this upgrade was intended for.

Since Forced March hacked this thread with his trigger service infomercial (JK - I plan on ordering a set from him) perhaps he can chime in as to whether or not he can do his magic using the Zendle DC.

FM? Is it possible?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 04:49:06 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline Forced March

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I do not have all the information.  But my gut says that your new disconnector is primarily for people have have no tab.  I am surprised it works with a 'tabbed' carrier, is there additional strain on the internals?  Have you tried it with non tabbed carrier? 

Offline CitizenPete

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I do not have all the information.  But my gut says that your new disconnector is primarily for people have have no tab.  I am surprised it works with a 'tabbed' carrier, is there additional strain on the internals?  Have you tried it with non tabbed carrier?

You may be correct, however don't all the CSA sa rifles come as tabbed from Czechpoint?

Could you please explain why there would be more "strain on the internals"?  Since the disconnector tab folds away when the carrier rides over it, wouldn't there be less force bewtween FCG parts?

I haven't shot the rifle yet with the Zendl part installed, but I am wondering about things like trigger slap.

I don't currently have any non-tabbed carriers. I have tabbed all 11 variants I own.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline JohnEd

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I have tabbed all 11 variants I own.

You should be writing books. :)

Offline Forced March

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You may be correct, however don't all the CSA sa rifles come as tabbed from Czechpoint?  (Yes they do, what I meant to say is that this mod might not be INTENDED for csa owners, no, it's for the other guys.)

Could you please explain why there would be more "strain on the internals"?  Since the disconnector tab folds away when the carrier rides over it, wouldn't there be less force bewtween FCG parts?  (If two part were never intended to interact as they now do, or for example drilling a whole in the middle of the disconnector will weaken it no?)

I haven't shot the rifle yet with the Zendl part installed, but I am wondering about things like trigger slap.(should be interesting to find out)

I don't currently have any non-tabbed carriers. I have tabbed all 11 variants I own.
[/quote]

Offline CitizenPete

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I have been using the Zendl DC (dis-connector) in a CSA sa. vz.58 (OEM tabbed carrier) in conjunction with the CNC/Bonesteel sear and trigger and it operates smoothly with no issues.  No trigger slap or other problems were observed to date. There is no discernible difference in trigger pull, take-up or reset that I can tell, so this upgrade may only be providing a Hermex/Gremlin solution.  (a bandage over a bandage?)

Other than addressing the Hermex/Gremlin, which is supposed to be eliminated by the OEM tab on the carrier, I have yet to see any ROI advantage of spending the money on this upgrade.  I have had 11 VzXXXX (vz.58 variant) carriers tabbed and painted for an average cost of $22.27 each, so the cost of the Zendl DC (and shipping cost from the Czech Republic) is hard to justify, unless it offers some other advantage that I am not yet understanding.

My plan still is to try it with Czechpoint-USA FCG (Made in USA) to compare trigger operation between with and without the Zendl DC.  On the list of to-dos for the future -- no rush.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline CitizenPete

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An idea:  If there is anyone one here that has a repeatable Gremlin issue on an early model un-tabbed D-Technik, CZ, or Sa. Vz.58 please IM me.  I would like to discuss sending this to you to test if it is a viable drop in fix, either via a transfer (purchase at my original cost), or a temporary test with a refundable security deposit. I have been burned so many times.

Not certain if or how this would install on an OOW VZ2000 or CAI VZ2008, ORF, etc.  If you have a gremlin issue with one of these variants, please look at the "translated" instructions in the link below (including the diagram links) to understand that some filing modification may be required to the trigger assembly.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63408.msg493030#msg493030

Otherwise I might consider acquiring a new/used un-tabbed carrier in order to try and introduce the gremlin.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:04:42 AM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.