So where did you put your engraviing for your SBRed scorpion ?

[jkurzner]

In speaking with my local ATF agent, there is no requirement to engrave the receiver of a SBR if you are not selling it.  Engraving is for FFL 02's that create SBR's for sale.

[Hammerdown3512]

In speaking with my local ATF agent, there is no requirement to engrave the receiver of a SBR if you are not selling it.  Engraving is for FFL 02's that create SBR's for sale.

 negative.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2010/03/batfe-engraving-requirements-f.html

click on the ATF 5300.4 link to take you to the actual atf document.   you must engrave your name (or trust name) along with city and state (state can be abbreviated) on the receiver.  there are more specifics in the document too, the depth of the engraving, etc.

your local ATF agent doesnt know the laws he is enforcing.  this is common problem among law enforcement....

[dethrok]

In speaking with my local ATF agent, there is no requirement to engrave the receiver of a SBR if you are not selling it.  Engraving is for FFL 02's that create SBR's for sale.

I've seen a lot of people with opinions on both sides but I'm definitely doing it just to be safe.

Also, I've seen this person who got a response from the ATF regarding converting an existing firearm to an SBR and the engraving requirements.

[Hammerdown3512]

yeah, i have saw that letter, but IMHO, the weight of an opinion letter issued nearly a decade ago is pale in comparison to the plain language regs that you can find on the ATFs website today.   

Fellas, I just dropped off mine this morning, its costing me a whooping $25 bucks to have it done.

its such a minor amount of money to make sure you are legal you would be a fool not to do it.   Not only that, but if someone breaks into my house and steals my EVO, good luck pawning it or selling to someone when it has my name engraved on the side of it. 

[teamsuzukigsxr]

I agree.  I plan on keeping this firearm forever.  I don't mind putting my trust name on it to be on the safe side.  I just wish I knew more about this process when making my trust name. 

[denneym1]

dethrok, I have the same letter, you just saved me the trouble of finding it so I could post it!  This is just another one of those "clear as mud" opinions of the ATF!  My understanding has always been that if you are "making" an SBR by "converting" an existing firearm, you can "adopt" the manufacturers markings on the Form 1.  All of mine (so far, knock on wood) have been approved that way.

[RKARMS]

Okay never was a manufacture of class three.{but was ffl/sot for 38 years,}how did a individual become a licensed Manufacture all of a sudden by doing a stock on the back of a Scorpion. to make a pistol SBR.

the pistol is already manufactured by CZ and imported legally. so all we are doing is putting on a folding stock.
{ or say a guy wants a a.o.w. and just puts on a front grip.no stock nothing else. two screw on grip. which he also can take off or on in one minute.

is that considered a Manufacturer or modifier?. Or is it  magic ? wait the  grip is on, now its off...now on again.
I always was under the belief if a person changed something, not being licensed at all, no C&R, No FFL. or SOT
 
they could make the change with the form one.for their own use.{not for resale}
and mark barrel. and not any receiver.and I guess A.O.W. needs nothing for grip.. its not permanent is it?

and in the SBR Scorpion. you remove the stock you are back to pistol. There is no law that I am aware off that says once stock is off its not a legal pistol.{ just the paperwork you have showing its SBR'ED now.

a sbr Uzi. remove barrel from 10 to 16. you can sell as a carbine  once notified to remove from sbr status.
> Maybe because imported as a pistol<from former Subgun is the issue.
I know its a tangled web.but I am sure glad at one point. CZ got them here in country...

are we  changing a status? not manufacturing a Scorpion.somebody explain? thanks

[Shady]

Lol You are dealing with the US government where it is now considered re manufacturing a weapon by placing a arm brace against your shoulder.

Okay never was a manufacture of class three.{but was ffl/sot for 38 years,}how did a individual become a licensed Manufacture all of a sudden by doing a stock on the back of a Scorpion. to make a pistol SBR.

the pistol is already manufactured by CZ and imported legally. so all we are doing is putting on a folding stock.
{ or say a guy wants a a.o.w. and just puts on a front grip.no stock nothing else. two screw on grip. which he also can take off or on in one minute.

is that considered a Manufacturer or modifier?. Or is it  magic ? wait the  grip is on, now its off...now on again.
I always was under the belief if a person changed something, not being licensed at all, no C&R, No FFL. or SOT
 
they could make the change with the form one.for their own use.{not for resale}
and mark barrel. and not any receiver.and I guess A.O.W. needs nothing for grip.. its not permanent is it?

and in the SBR Scorpion. you remove the stock you are back to pistol. There is no law that I am aware off that says once stock is off its not a legal pistol.{ just the paperwork you have showing its SBR'ED now.

a sbr Uzi. remove barrel from 10 to 16. you can sell as a carbine  once notified to remove from sbr status.
> Maybe because imported as a pistol<from former Subgun is the issue.
I know its a tangled web.but I am sure glad at one point. CZ got them here in country...

are we  changing a status? not manufacturing a Scorpion.somebody explain? thanks

[pedro66]

FORM 1 top of the form

"Application To Make Or Register A Firearm"

Make

verb
1.
form (something) by putting parts together or combining substances; construct; create.
"my grandmother made a dress for me"
synonyms:   construct, build, assemble, put together, manufacture, produce, fabricate, create, form, fashion, model

When you "Make" an SBR you are the maker same as manufacturer to the SBR state you may not be the original maker/manufacturer but then they are not likely the original manufacturer of 100% of the materials used to get to the state where they are the manufacturer but for the sake of a firearm and the ATF then thats where they become interested.

[pedro66]

Okay never was a manufacture of class three.{but was ffl/sot for 38 years,}how did a individual become a licensed Manufacture all of a sudden by doing a stock on the back of a Scorpion. to make a pistol SBR.

the pistol is already manufactured by CZ and imported legally. so all we are doing is putting on a folding stock.
{ or say a guy wants a a.o.w. and just puts on a front grip.no stock nothing else. two screw on grip. which he also can take off or on in one minute.

is that considered a Manufacturer or modifier?. Or is it  magic ? wait the  grip is on, now its off...now on again.
I always was under the belief if a person changed something, not being licensed at all, no C&R, No FFL. or SOT
 
they could make the change with the form one.for their own use.{not for resale}
and mark barrel. and not any receiver.and I guess A.O.W. needs nothing for grip.. its not permanent is it?

and in the SBR Scorpion. you remove the stock you are back to pistol. There is no law that I am aware off that says once stock is off its not a legal pistol.{ just the paperwork you have showing its SBR'ED now.

a sbr Uzi. remove barrel from 10 to 16. you can sell as a carbine  once notified to remove from sbr status.
> Maybe because imported as a pistol<from former Subgun is the issue.
I know its a tangled web.but I am sure glad at one point. CZ got them here in country...

are we  changing a status? not manufacturing a Scorpion.somebody explain? thanks

Once the form 1 is approved the EVO becomes an SBR the stock has nothing to do with it being an SBR the law is clear that a barreled receiver is an SBR (Under 16")  remove the barrel then its no longer an SBR, remove the stock and leave the barrel its an SBR with the stock removed

The only way to avoid an EVO as an SBR submitting a form 1 is to remove the barrel and not have it in your keep before your form is approved and not obtain the barrel back until you are ready to fit it

[pedro66]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/if-removal-and-destruction-or-disposition-short-barrel-removes-firearm-purview-nfa-there

If removal and destruction or disposition of the short barrel removes the firearm from the purview NFA, is there a minimum time period the barrel must remain unattached for the firearm to not be regulated under the NFA?

The temporary removal of the barrel for repair or change of caliber does not remove a NFA firearm from the purview of the NFA. If the registrant maintains control of the parts required for assembly of a SBR, he or she must maintain the registration as a SBS or SBS regardless of the length of time that the barrel is unattached.

[pedro66]

Note no stock mentioned


What is the registered part of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) or Short Barreled Shotgun (SBS)?

While a receiver alone may be classified as a ?firearm? under the Gun Control Act (GCA), SBRs and SBSs are classified in totality under the National Firearms Act (NFA). A firearm that meets the definition of a SBR consists of a rifle that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. A SBS consists of a shotgun that has a barrel less than 18 inches in length. The serialized receiver is recorded for registration in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR).

[pedro66]

And just to show that you cannot just flip flop to move items to non NFA states or to suit what you want to call it time to time various,now you could say "I will leave the barrel at home" This still is you having control of it

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/if-i-remove-short-barrel-my-sbr-or-sbs-may-i-move-firearm-across-state-lines-without

If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?

If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.

[RKARMS]

Pedro thanks for the updated info. now you know partly why after 38 years ffl/sot I got out. and I can mark the barrel if stock is put on correct? or  is it in stone on the rec. only.and no other place. I remember getting M3A1 GREASEGUNS imported and they stamped the barrels only. too many changes to all the laws they have now and too many flip flop's on when they issued directive's. anyhow thanks for that great input. and have a good week.

[Atl_Matt]

Form 1 back this Monday and heading over to engraver along with a few other SBRs now approved that need branding as well. Engraver was cool but worried it might need to be milled out down to metal and then engraved to be legal. Based on this thread, going to just put it right on top of CZ logo and be done. This crap is so silly it hurts my head - bunch of law abiding citizens paying a random tax and then killing ourselves trying to figure out what this TLA (3-letter agency) wants at a given moment in time on a brand new model weapon ... Argh!!  Now, for the stock conversion. Oh boy.