So who plans to dominate the new Carry Optic division with their P series gun?

[jameslovesjammie]

They  (http://www.uspsa.org/index.php) say they'll be posting possible Carry Optics rules on their site 'when they think them up'.

They're up!

http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-announcements-details.php?Appendix-D7-Carry-Optics---Provisional-Released-215

Would like to see milling a slide or adding dovetail adapters as 'legal' updates for pistols that might "otherwise" qualify for the Carry Optics class.

Appendix D7, 13:

Optical/electronic sights permitted:

Yes, must be attached directly to slide between rear of slide and ejection port.

Which pistols qualify is just one question of the bazillion likely to be asked.

Special Conditions (bottom of document)

A handgun may be approved specifically for Carry Optics division provided that the model of the pistol used is an approved Production Division model AND meets Carry Optics criteria. Any pistol that is not on the approved Production list, but meets Carry Optics criteria must submit a Manufacturers Declaration Form to DNROI stating that a minimum of 500 complete handguns have been manufactured and are available to the general public

[1SOW]

Wow,  thanks James.
I've shot friends' red dots and didn't bring the pistol up aligned with with the red dot without a lot of delay.  But I suspect a lot of practice would make it more natural.  Switching back and forth might be a booger though. 

[M1A4ME]

Wow,  thanks James.
I've shot friends' red dots and didn't bring the pistol up aligned with with the red dot without a lot of delay.  But I suspect a lot of practice would make it more natural.  Switching back and forth might be a booger though. 

That's a very good reason for having the back up sights that you can set up to co-witness with the red dot.

I know I keep harping on this but it's what the Glock guys can have and it works and makes good sense. 

I will not put a red dot on one of my CZ's unless it can be set up like the Glocks (I do own a Glock and I've shot 2 others but I have little use for a pistol that shoots patterns when I can get one that shoots groups).

[Raining_Brass]

Wow,  thanks James.
I've shot friends' red dots and didn't bring the pistol up aligned with with the red dot without a lot of delay.  But I suspect a lot of practice would make it more natural.  Switching back and forth might be a booger though. 

That's a very good reason for having the back up sights that you can set up to co-witness with the red dot.

I know I keep harping on this but it's what the Glock guys can have and it works and makes good sense. 

I will not put a red dot on one of my CZ's unless it can be set up like the Glocks (I do own a Glock and I've shot 2 others but I have little use for a pistol that shoots patterns when I can get one that shoots groups).

One - two good range trips and you'll quickly see that having co witnessing backups is unnecessary.  After about 50 rounds I was immediately picking up the dot between shots.

[jameslovesjammie]

One - two good range trips and you'll quickly see that having co witnessing backups is unnecessary.  After about 50 rounds I was immediately picking up the dot between shots.

I agree.  I have red dots on a few pistols.  Yes, it takes a little getting used to, but it isn't a drastic change.  It is even easier if it is melted into the slide.

I took my P07 to work today to see if a Vortex Razor would fit between the ejection port and rear sight.  It won't.  Against the front of the rear sight, it just barely protrudes into the breechface.  Those that have had their slides milled, how deep were you able to go?  Did you just go the same depth as the factory sight cut?

[Raining_Brass]

One - two good range trips and you'll quickly see that having co witnessing backups is unnecessary.  After about 50 rounds I was immediately picking up the dot between shots.

I agree.  I have red dots on a few pistols.  Yes, it takes a little getting used to, but it isn't a drastic change.  It is even easier if it is melted into the slide.

I took my P07 to work today to see if a Vortex Razor would fit between the ejection port and rear sight.  It won't.  Against the front of the rear sight, it just barely protrudes into the breechface.  Those that have had their slides milled, how deep were you able to go?  Did you just go the same depth as the factory sight cut?

You really can't push it much deeper than the rear dovetail is cut because CZ has the bleep FPB hole milled so deep. If you went deeper, it would render the FPB unusable.

I believe not being able to run a rear sight with a red dot on these guns is just something people will have to just understand isn't going to happen lol.

[Brian C.]

Looking at my cgw setup, the fpb range of motion is so little the fpb looks like it could have .060 shaved off the top, but you would be using your optic for the fpb roof. Idk if that would work, maybe for a range gun. The firing pin retaining roll pin looks like the next obstical. Would a glock dovetail fit behind the cz dovetail?

[Raining_Brass]

Looking at my cgw setup, the fpb range of motion is so little the fpb looks like it could have .060 shaved off the top, but you would be using your optic for the fpb roof. Idk if that would work, maybe for a range gun. The firing pin retaining roll pin looks like the next obstical. Would a glock dovetail fit behind the cz dovetail?

It's seriously not worth all that to possibly not have your FPB work properly/reliably to gain a hair more depth on the red dot IMO. As to a Glock dovetail, you definitely couldn't fit it behind the CZ dovetail. What we usually do is cut out the CZ dovetail when we mill for the red dot. It leaves about .100" (off the top my head) between the back of the red dot and the end of the slide. I've verified that you could indeed squeeze a Glock dovetail between the front of the red dot and the breech face. Firstly, you would have to shorten the extractor retaining pin since you'd be milling into that area (no big deal) and secondly, you could run into the problem of having to find either a custom height Glock rear sight or custom height CZ front sight to try and get a zero out of the irons.

I suppose if having irons with a red dot is something you just can't live without, it would be worth all that. hehe

[Brian C.]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Raining_Brass]

Gotcha. Thanks.

you bet.

[sonofthegriz]

Speaking to the "need" for backup irons, it depends on the usage. Open division pistols don't run irons and shooters in that division (1) train to pick up the dot quickly and (2) generally run reliable red dot sights, reducing the likelihood of "needing" backup sights. If you're building a TacTimmy gun for slayin' goblins the "tactical" wisdom is to keep cowitnessed irons, but on a dedicated Carry Optics competition gun I think I'm OK without irons.

I'm seriously considering having my P09 set up for Carry Optics, and won't miss my irons. I'll just have to train to the dot, not unlike if I were moving from Limited to Open.

[Stuart]

Ready to play. We set some P09 s up to play.

[sonofthegriz]

Ready to play. We set some P09 s up to play.

Stuart, are you leaving the front sight dovetail empty, putting a normal front sight in it, or cutting one down to "plug" the dovetail? Thoughts?

[Wideload]

P-09 is the backup plan, working on a 85 combat to make weight.

Any progress on the 85C project?

[bigdave24]

Stuart, how much are those milled for optics P-09s?